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Need some tech help - slow startup and shutdown...

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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:51 pm

BitterDodgerFan wrote:performance degradation cannot be avoided and will happen on every PC.

Arghh ... people saying stuff like that annoys me almost as much as those Mac vs PC commecials where they make you think that it's a PC problem and not a OS problem. :-C :-X

BitterDodgerFan wrote: i find doing a clean windows installation the best method, once 2-3 yrs. if you can also, make sure you have ample RAM. it always helps, especially boot / shutdown times.

I agree ... I reformat my Windows partition and reinstall at least every six - eight months. I tend to keep my directories fairly organized and all my files in one location (damn my OCD :*)) so backing those up is a breeze then starting fresh is far less hassle than trying to figure out which program I installed two months ago that is now uninstalled is wreaking havoc on my system. :-S

If you can't be talked into reformatting follow acs' advice, but eventually you're going to have to do something more than chase all the proverbial rabbits down the proverbial holes if you want to get your computer performing like it was when you first got it. ;-D
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Postby acsguitar » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:00 pm

SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
BitterDodgerFan wrote:performance degradation cannot be avoided and will happen on every PC.

Arghh ... people saying stuff like that annoys me almost as much as those Mac vs PC commecials where they make you think that it's a PC problem and not a OS problem. :-C :-X

BitterDodgerFan wrote: i find doing a clean windows installation the best method, once 2-3 yrs. if you can also, make sure you have ample RAM. it always helps, especially boot / shutdown times.

I agree ... I reformat my Windows partition and reinstall at least every six - eight months. I tend to keep my directories fairly organized and all my files in one location (damn my OCD :*)) so backing those up is a breeze then starting fresh is far less hassle than trying to figure out which program I installed two months ago that is now uninstalled is wreaking havoc on my system. :-S

If you can't be talked into reformatting follow acs' advice, but eventually you're going to have to do something more than chase all the proverbial rabbits down the proverbial holes if you want to get your computer performing like it was when you first got it. ;-D


Word up...and hey keep that desktop clean!
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:32 am

knapplc wrote:
I installed spybot on it a while ago, plus she has Norton 2005. I just ran a check last night and she had one virus, but nothing major.


norton is famous for slowing things down, although personally i havent had problems with it. in fact, my computer seemed to run better with it than the usual suggested less system hogging alternatives.


reformatting is good but in my experience the casual computer user doesnt really notice the difference (or at least doesnt think the difference is worth the effort). i dont usually reformat my friends/relatives systems unless something is seriously messed up.
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Postby acsguitar » Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:44 am

j_d_mcnugent wrote:

reformatting is good but in my experience the casual computer user doesnt really notice the difference (or at least doesnt think the difference is worth the effort). i dont usually reformat my friends/relatives systems unless something is seriously messed up.


Good points. We have people at work all the time how call in and say.

"My computer is slow!! waaaaaaaaaaaa!!!"

So I connect to their machines and find that even remoted in, which causes a delay, their machines are faster then then mine.

So yea they don't know the difference half of the time. I think it depends on how much caffeine they have had.
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:53 am

j_d_mcnugent wrote:reformatting is good but in my experience the casual computer user doesnt really notice the difference (or at least doesnt think the difference is worth the effort). i dont usually reformat my friends/relatives systems unless something is seriously messed up.

That's true, but the Windows (at least XP) installer is actually pretty good at holding your hand a walking you through it and there isn't anything you can really screw up except for maybe entering the wrong timezone or something. :-b After I backup all my files I can have it do a full reformat and reinstall in less than an hour. I guess I'm just one of those people who likes to tinker around with my system though because I can notice a very substantial increase in overall performance shortly after a reformat ... but to each his own I guess. O:-)
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Postby acsguitar » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:05 pm

SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
j_d_mcnugent wrote:reformatting is good but in my experience the casual computer user doesnt really notice the difference (or at least doesnt think the difference is worth the effort). i dont usually reformat my friends/relatives systems unless something is seriously messed up.

That's true, but the Windows (at least XP) installer is actually pretty good at holding your hand a walking you through it and there isn't anything you can really screw up except for maybe entering the wrong timezone or something. :-b After I backup all my files I can have it do a full reformat and reinstall in less than an hour. I guess I'm just one of those people who likes to tinker around with my system though because I can notice a very substantial increase in overall performance shortly after a reformat ... but to each his own I guess. O:-)


Yea the OCD in me used to get really ticked about stuff like that. When I played oblivion I had to choose between Using AA and AF to get rid of the jaggies or using HDR to make the lighting pretty. It was a really hard decision
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Postby BitterDodgerFan » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:04 pm

SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
BitterDodgerFan wrote:performance degradation cannot be avoided and will happen on every PC.

Arghh ... people saying stuff like that annoys me almost as much as those Mac vs PC commecials where they make you think that it's a PC problem and not a OS problem. :-C :-X


Arghh...i hate when people assume things. i try to say things in layman's terms, then i often get blasted in this forums. if i dont explain myself, (like the firefox thread) then people take shots at me. i basically meant windows computer when i say PC. and yes, it has to do in large part with the OS, not the components (as macs and pcs have pretty much interchangeable parts nowadays).

i belive a large part of this has to do with window's architecture of file system. also, windows tend to leave a lot of fragments and temporary files behind and has issues with cycling cache and utilizing large paging files for virtual memory. but you can blame a big part of that on applications that leak memory and such. some games nowadays have poor coding that leak memory and cant handle virtual memory efficiently. (e.g. Civ4, homm5)

i use both platforms about 50/50, and i notice that OS X likes to bind and optimize frequently, especially after a OS update (winxp does this now too i noticed). in fact, it doesnt even have a defragment tool, closests thing being pre-bind command in unix terminal. the unix file system tends to sort things in a way where it can be accessed and run more efficiently, but needs to maintenance itself. windows does not need to maintenance itself as much as unix system. i believe unix creates a virtual file system, that makes everything run under one root directory in a file system hierarchy, whereas windows seem more cluttered. from my experience, i think HSF+ is superior to FAT/NTFS file system and prevents corruption of data better as well as faster indexing and compression, etc.

in the end its 99% OS, imo, especially now that macs are using intel chips. however, during the RISC processor days (PowerPC), their chip architecture allowed for huge amounts of cache compared to their PC counterparts. still that doesnt have much to do with long-term performance degradation.

oh and im not a mac fanboy, i love my PC too. i swear that Mac vs PC ad campaign has sorta put the wrong image/stereotype in people's head. anyways, my point still is that performance degradation on PCs are inevitable. (PC=windows machine, Mac=OS x machine) i know PC stands for personal computer, and should apply to machines of any os but in today's world, PC has become synonymous with windows based computers.

:-°
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:00 pm

BitterDodgerFan wrote:Arghh...i hate when people assume things. i try to say things in layman's terms, then i often get blasted in this forums. if i dont explain myself, (like the firefox thread) then people take shots at me. i basically meant windows computer when i say PC. and yes, it has to do in large part with the OS, not the components (as macs and pcs have pretty much interchangeable parts nowadays).

I wasn't directing that at you in particular ... more like the culture that those commercials have fostered ... if that even makes sense. :-?

BitterDodgerFan wrote:i belive a large part of this has to do with window's architecture of file system. also, windows tend to leave a lot of fragments and temporary files behind and has issues with cycling cache and utilizing large paging files for virtual memory. but you can blame a big part of that on applications that leak memory and such. some games nowadays have poor coding that leak memory and cant handle virtual memory efficiently. (e.g. Civ4, homm5)

Exactly. Windows also allows third client programs more uncontrolled access to it's kernel (than *NIX which now includes Macs since they're essentially runing BSD) which after a while causes the slowdowns and hits to performance.

BitterDodgerFan wrote:i use both platforms about 50/50, and i notice that OS X likes to bind and optimize frequently, especially after a OS update (winxp does this now too i noticed). in fact, it doesnt even have a defragment tool, closests thing being pre-bind command in unix terminal. the unix file system tends to sort things in a way where it can be accessed and run more efficiently, but needs to maintenance itself. windows does not need to maintenance itself as much as unix system. i believe unix creates a virtual file system, that makes everything run under one root directory in a file system hierarchy, whereas windows seem more cluttered. from my experience, i think HSF+ is superior to FAT/NTFS file system and prevents corruption of data better as well as faster indexing and compression, etc.

More or less that's how it works. There's a lot of variety when it comes to *NIX filesystems too, which is nice becasue you can choose the one that best fits your intended purposes (ie desktop vs server) and if you choose correctly then the slowdown from the optimizations is negligible.

BitterDodgerFan wrote:in the end its 99% OS, imo, especially now that macs are using intel chips. however, during the RISC processor days (PowerPC), their chip architecture allowed for huge amounts of cache compared to their PC counterparts. still that doesnt have much to do with long-term performance degradation.

Macs (and *NIX) will still outperform Windows based PCs longterm even though they run on very similar hardware now.

BitterDodgerFan wrote:oh and im not a mac fanboy, i love my PC too. i swear that Mac vs PC ad campaign has sorta put the wrong image/stereotype in people's head. anyways, my point still is that performance degradation on PCs are inevitable. (PC=windows machine, Mac=OS x machine) i know PC stands for personal computer, and should apply to machines of any os but in today's world, PC has become synonymous with windows based computers.

:-°

You're right, so I probably was out of line but being an uber dork people not making that distinction still irks me. :-C
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:59 pm

SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
j_d_mcnugent wrote:reformatting is good but in my experience the casual computer user doesnt really notice the difference (or at least doesnt think the difference is worth the effort). i dont usually reformat my friends/relatives systems unless something is seriously messed up.

That's true, but the Windows (at least XP) installer is actually pretty good at holding your hand a walking you through it and there isn't anything you can really screw up except for maybe entering the wrong timezone or something. :-b After I backup all my files I can have it do a full reformat and reinstall in less than an hour. I guess I'm just one of those people who likes to tinker around with my system though because I can notice a very substantial increase in overall performance shortly after a reformat ... but to each his own I guess. O:-)


its easy if you have your drive is partitioned. i dont think the average person does that though. if you format joe six pack's drive you have to backup/reinstall everything.
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Postby WickedSmaat » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:46 pm

I had a question about Firefox, did a search, couldn't find much so I figured not to waste another thread since this is a tech thread.

On some Invision boards, a lot of the time I get the IPB Image in place of images. I can right click/view image but I assume it's a problem with Firefox. Is there something in the settings that I can change or mess with to fix it?
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