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Unethical move?

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Postby ukrneal » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:18 am

This is unethical. You are throwing away cats to the benefit of another player. And yes, it is within the rules.
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Postby Fpower » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:24 pm

It's fine IMO. You only have this option because you've built a big lead over the second place team. This is your reward.

Now, if you were out of the playoffs, and did this simply to help someone else, that's collusion. But you're not doing this to help someone else, you're doing it to help yourself. Helping someone else is just a side effect. Not collusion in my book.

Sometimes the best way to win the war is to sacrifice a battle.
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Postby noseeum » Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:28 pm

Fpower wrote:Helping someone else is just a side effect. Not collusion in my book.


Actually, it's THE effect. It's the goal, not a side effect. He's specifically helping one team in order to hurt another in the standings, thus paving a potentially easier playoff road for himself.

It's not collusion since he's doing it on his own without asking the other owners he's helping.

I think it's definitely borderline, and I could understand doing it, but I myself wouldn't do it. Playoffs are random enough, and you may do something you don't feel comfortable with only to shoot yourself in the foot and run into a hot team you thought would be a pushover.

Savvy_stu's example, OTOH, is definitely collusion.
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Postby Leiter Fan » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:43 pm

noseeum wrote:
savvy_stu wrote:Had a similar situation like this in my fantasy football league last season.

Top four teams made the playoffs in a ten team league. I was in 3rd place, and I was playing the owner in 2nd in the last week of the season. Whichever one of us lost that week, could potentially have missed the playoffs. So, instead, we decided to ensure a tie, by benching both of our rosters. A 0-0 tie ensured that we both made the playoffs. It pissed off the guy in 5th place, but let's be honest, there was more strategy involved in the formulation of our rosters that week, than either of us had used for any other game that season.


Um, savvy_stu, that is pretty much the textbook definition of collusion.

You are both choosing actions, i.e. benching your own players, that would in any normal situation be considered detrimental to your team, but since you've both ageed to do it, you are both benefitting.

Two competitors cooperating to the detriment of another is collusion. You're not supposed to cooperate with any of your competitors. You're supposed to compete with them.


If I was the owner of the 5th place team, I would refuse to ever be in your league again. That move was ridiculous and low class.
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Postby bravo369 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:29 pm

I don't think this is unethical. I think it's your job as an owner to position best position yourself to win. I know i've read enough on here to see some owners will purposely bench their starters at the end of the week to ensure that they win the W's and ERA category for the week. can you say you are fielding your best team in that situation also if you are benching santana against TB just in case.

Like someone else said, i think this is a reward for getting yourself in this position. You get set yourself up that is most beneficial to you. i say go for it
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Re: Unethical move?

Postby StlSluggers » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:59 pm

shmolex wrote:Anyway, I happen to be playing the 6th place team this week. If I were to throw away some of the categories this week, I could easily get the 6th place team to move ahead of the 5th place team. That way I could completely avoid this team until the final playoff round, where I would be guaranteed to finish in the money.

After talking so much trash, I would love to drop him into 6th place. But it kinda feels unethical to me. Should I do it?

I remember this topic coming up last year, and the concensus was that you should just play to win for the week at hand at all times because anything can happen in H2H. No matter how well you could possibly "plan" who you would play, you never know how anyone is going to play in any given week.

It would certainly suck if this team tanked the week you would have played them and then got hot the week you did play them, wouldn't it?

It could very well happen, too. Just play to win the current week. That's all you should ever do.
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Postby noseeum » Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:06 pm

bravo369 wrote:I don't think this is unethical. I think it's your job as an owner to position best position yourself to win. I know i've read enough on here to see some owners will purposely bench their starters at the end of the week to ensure that they win the W's and ERA category for the week. can you say you are fielding your best team in that situation also if you are benching santana against TB just in case.

Like someone else said, i think this is a reward for getting yourself in this position. You get set yourself up that is most beneficial to you. i say go for it


That's benching to win. Benching to lose on purpose is different.

If you do it on your own, I'm not saying it's collusion. I will say it's bad form in my book.

To sum up my view:
Two teams planning for a 0-0 tie in order to help themselves get in the playoffs while guaranteeing another misses: Collusion. Boo hiss. No. Not allowed.

One team purposely losing a week in order to make sure he plays a different person in round one of the playoffs: I wouldn't do it. It's not collusion, but it will piss someone off and look weak. Plus, it doesn't guarantee you anything, so the effort and bad feelings it may generate is not worth it. Do it if you want, and I won't think too badly of you, but I don't think it's worth the effort. Overthinking. Play to win and win the playoffs. You'll feel better about it.
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Postby bravo369 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:00 pm

noseeum wrote:That's benching to win. Benching to lose on purpose is different.



He's not benching to lose. He's benching to win. In this case though, he's benching to try to win the entire league. What difference does it make whether he's trying to win the week or in the grand scheme of things. What's that saying...lose the battle but win the war. isn't that all that ultimately counts? To me, this is just simply strategizing....maybe even overstrategizing. If i was in this league and he pulled this, i would tip my hat to him. he used his brains to win the unconventional way and i applaud that.
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Postby noseeum » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:12 pm

bravo369 wrote:
noseeum wrote:That's benching to win. Benching to lose on purpose is different.



He's not benching to lose. He's benching to win. In this case though, he's benching to try to win the entire league. What difference does it make whether he's trying to win the week or in the grand scheme of things. What's that saying...lose the battle but win the war. isn't that all that ultimately counts? To me, this is just simply strategizing....maybe even overstrategizing. If i was in this league and he pulled this, i would tip my hat to him. he used his brains to win the unconventional way and i applaud that.


If you read my whole post, you'll see I don't quite think what the original poster is considering is definitely wrong, but it's in a gray area. He's not benching to win. He's benching to set the playoffs up as he thinks he wants them. It's a lot of effort for what is at most a dubious gain. He doesn't know for sure it will help him. It just changes who he'll play in the playoffs potentially. And he knows for sure it will demote a guy from 5th to 6th and promote a guy from 6th to 5th. The 5th place guy could get pretty pissed when he sees this. So my response was basically, "why bother? Just play and win."

He can do it if he wants, but it seems like too much effort/pain for too little gain.
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Postby shmolex » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:19 pm

well, the question is moot at this point. He's pounding me so far this week with no help from me.

I dont know if that gets a ;-D or :-t . If I lose too horribly, I might slip to 2nd.
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