UFC/PRIDE (Possible Spoilers) - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

UFC/PRIDE (Possible Spoilers)

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Sun May 13, 2007 3:48 am

It would seem a guy like Fujita or V. Silva would be nearly impossible to knock out with ~12oz. gloves.
Last edited by Chrisy Moltisanti on Sun May 13, 2007 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Chrisy Moltisanti
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1536
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: 6 feet under

Postby Tavish » Sun May 13, 2007 11:32 am

Amazinz wrote:Of course. But this has all been spurred on by high profile boxers and media personalities (such as Lampley) running their mouths. These are the guys saying they can enter MMA rules and dominate. It wasn't the other way around. ;-)


If you disagree with what Lampley said you are truly a MMA fanboy. His statement echoes almost exactly what everyone in the Boxing vs MMA debate says.
Image

Bury me a Royal.
Tavish
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterWeb Supporter
Posts: 11067
(Past Year: 26)
Joined: 3 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Sun May 13, 2007 11:40 am

Tavish wrote:
brewcrew4you wrote:There are two ways a boxer can beat a MMA fighter:
1. The boxer hits hard enough that he knocks the MMA guy out when he shoots.
2. The boxer has a fast and accurate enough jab that he can keep the MMA guy off of him the entire fight.

Boxers think that they are the toughest guys around, but look at Kit Cope, for example - world champion kickboxer, and he got the crap pounded out of him multiple times in the UFC because he couldn't defend the takedown...


Or 3, have it a boxing match. I'm pretty sure that boxers would have a tough time posting up Shaq or hitting a Zumaya fastball too. MMA and boxing are completely different sports. I'm not much of a gambler anymore, but I would definitely take my chances that a boxer would have a better shot winning a MMA than I would a MMA fighter winning a boxing match.

The lunging jabs and looping overhead hooks that most MMA fighters rely on would get them knocked out fairly quick in a boxing ring. Just like a boxer would be in a world of hurt against a strong takedown fighter like Koscheck or Hughes.


That would depend on who you chose out of MMA. The best boxer fighting in MMA would not do as well as the best stand up guys of MMA in a boxing setting imo. And one can only imagine what a Cro Cop kick would do to a boxer.
Image
Chrisy Moltisanti
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1536
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: 6 feet under

Postby Amazinz » Sun May 13, 2007 11:48 am

That's fine. Call me a MMA fan boy if you want. I was a boxing fan long before I became a K1 and MMA fan though. But eventually I just grew tired of the fragmented nature of the sport, the severely limited exposure to anything other than marquee matchups, and the overabundance of paper matchups. Then as I became a better student of MMA/K1 I realized how artificial a fight environment boxing is. Now I am giddy with anticipation the night before a UFC like I used to be prior to a Tyson match. :-)

As for Lampley's comments, I couldn't disagree with you more. Lampley has really been making some outlandish comments. He knows that the sport he loves is dying and he strikes out at a thriving sport that continues to steal away more and more of boxing's fan base. Either you're not totally familiar with everything Lampley has said or you're blinded by your dedication to boxing IMHO.
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

Postby Tavish » Sun May 13, 2007 12:14 pm

Amazinz wrote:As for Lampley's comments, I couldn't disagree with you more. Lampley has really been making some outlandish comments. He knows that the sport he loves is dying and he strikes out at a thriving sport that continues to steal away more and more of boxing's fan base. Either you're not totally familiar with everything Lampley has said or you're blinded by your dedication to boxing IMHO.


Maybe I am not aware of everything Lampley has said. I know the comment after the Oscar/Floyd fight are the ones that the MMA fans keep throwing out. There was nothing radical about those statements.

“You know, one of the specificities in that question is, ‘Will boxing have to cede its place on the stage to other fighting forms like Mixed Martial Arts?’ Mixed Martial Arts is entertaining, [but] the kind of skill level you saw in the ring tonight – there’s nothing in Mixed Martial Arts which is within light years of what Mayweather and De La Hoya are able to do with their hands.”
Image

Bury me a Royal.
Tavish
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterWeb Supporter
Posts: 11067
(Past Year: 26)
Joined: 3 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Amazinz » Sun May 13, 2007 12:24 pm

Max Kellerman, a huge boxing fan, took umbrage to the comment as well so it's not just loony fan boys like me and the other crazies in this thread. :-D
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

Postby Tavish » Sun May 13, 2007 12:38 pm

Amazinz wrote:Max Kellerman, a huge boxing fan, took umbrage to the comment as well so it's not just loony fan boys like me and the other crazies in this thread. :-D


Max has a very personal interest in seeing MMA succeed. He will very likely be the voice for MMA when it comes to HBO. I'll stop now and quit hijacking the thread, I'll be back when someone points out that Ali wouldn't stand a chance at covering Jerry Rice for 50 yards.
Image

Bury me a Royal.
Tavish
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterWeb Supporter
Posts: 11067
(Past Year: 26)
Joined: 3 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Amazinz » Sun May 13, 2007 12:44 pm

Yeah Kellerman definitely has his biases but so does Lampley. They are both incredibly knowledgeable of the sport with opposing biases so I think it's fair to compare their opinions on the issue. And I think Ali would have a chance. Jerry might not get past the hand checks in the first five yards. ;-)
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Sun May 13, 2007 3:31 pm

The Boxing vs. UFC Debate Continues

No holds barred fighting, known today by the sanitized moniker mixed martial arts (MMA), has always had at its base the grappling arts, and in particular Brazilian jiu-jitsu. The set of techniques which are next in line as most effective in MMA is wrestling.

Most boxing people know the same about Brazilian jiu-jitsu and wrestling as they do haute couture, honest finances, and getting subjects and predicates to agree.

I've been part of this debate for over a decade now, doing my part to oppose the actions of Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) to close this sport down. I've done so both as a journalist embedded in the NHB/MMA world, and as one embedded in the boxing world.

Despite the growing acceptance of mixed martial arts by the American regulatory commissions such as Nevada, New Jersey, and in early 2006 California, there are still many in boxing who view these events as some type of wild battle royales involving barbarians and thugs found in some parking lot or bar. The MMA enthusiasts counter by rattling off the lengthy and growing roster in these events of Olympic champions in wrestling and judo, black belts in jiu-jitsu and judo, world and national wrestling champions, kickboxing world champions, and those with impressive credentials in more than one of these disciplines.

Yet these events still appeal to largely different audiences. The MMA audience is far less discriminating as far as striking technique is concerned than the boxing audience is. In MMA you will thus too often see two world-class specialists in one or another form of grappling engaging in what mainly becomes a boxing or kickboxing match. For a boxing aficionado, it can be as painful as any sports fan watching Michael Jordan play baseball, any country music fan enduring Willie Nelson being placed in duets with various pop mediocrities, and any writing fan having to plow through most of today's sportswriting, and especially the drivel and hack jobs which pollute the boxing and MMA "literature" if you can even call it that.

But the MMA fans can't get enough of this, and parry the boxing fans' barbs by stressing the intricate and artistic grappling techniques that lie at the core of their beloved sport. They also emphasize that many boxing people are still willfully ignorant of accepted martial arts techniques like chokes, which are legal in Olympic judo, for instance. And, the MMA folks argue, the boxing folks fail to realize that punching an opponent on the ground almost always gives the puncher far less leverage than if he were standing right in front of him and could sit down on his punches. Plus, they usually add, if one guy gets in trouble, the ref is there to stop the fight, which almost always happens far sooner in MMA than in boxing, or that the other fighter can tap out and quit honorably, whose equivalent in boxing is still taboo.

So who, if anyone, is right? This is not exactly like debating which tastes better, chocolate or vanilla, because what has thus far gone on in the exchanges between the two sides has focused more on the realm of fighter safety, level of athleticism, the comparative aesthetics of these two types of fighting, and the like.

The best way for the open-minded, intelligent, and sports-savvy boxing fans (and I hope there are billions and billions of you) to learn about an event like UFC is, like just about anything else, to investigate it. The best yardstick is to examine its best product to observe just what it has to offer in its fullest development.


I don't see how any fighting fan can watch this fight and believe a boxer at equal weight could compete with either of these fighters in an MMA match. Think of Roy Jones Jr vs either fighter, or Hughes or Liddell. Give them 3 months to train and sure, a boxer will improve take down defense, but 3 moths of solely working stand up would only increase the best MMA fighters chances in MMA. With ~3 months of training Liddell and Sera would fair better in a boxing match vs Roy Jones Jr than Roy would in an MMA match.

Roy would do better than this in the stand up, but imagine it's how many boxers would fair in Pride versus this style.

This fight has an interesting mix of MMA and boxing like rules. It also includes the now world's most dominant fighter. For those of you wondering how a Foreman vs heavyweight MMA match would go, this is the man to compare him to. Fedor Emelianenko. Foreman is 6' 3½" and fought at weights between 212-263 lbs. Fedor is 6'0" and fights at 235-255 lbs.
Image
Chrisy Moltisanti
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1536
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: 6 feet under

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Sun May 13, 2007 4:13 pm

A few interesting articles I've found.

newsday poll http://www.newsday.com/sports/custom/boxing/

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-a ... oxing-ufc/

http://www.keepersofthecage.com/forums/ ... topic=2506

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=5260

I hear boxing fans say that many MMA guys are failed boxers, this isn't true in the case of Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira, who trains with the Cuban Olympic team, who have reported repeated asked Nogueira to compete for them. The fact is, no matter how good a boxer you are, you have to be able to avoid takedown and punishment in the clinch in a real fight. While Nogueira might only lose decisions against top boxers, the difference in how he would dominate them is the Octagon would be far greater than a few 10-9 boxing rounds.
Image
Chrisy Moltisanti
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1536
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: 6 feet under

PreviousNext

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: unioreimi and 7 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Saturday, Aug. 23
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Chi White Sox at NY Yankees
(1:05 pm)
Tampa Bay at Toronto
(1:07 pm)
Detroit at Minnesota
(1:10 pm)
Seattle at Boston
(1:35 pm)
Baltimore at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
San Francisco at Washington
(4:05 pm)
Houston at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
St. Louis at Philadelphia
(7:05 pm)
Pittsburgh at Milwaukee
(7:10 pm)
Atlanta at Cincinnati
(7:10 pm)
San Diego at Arizona
(8:10 pm)
Miami at Colorado
(8:10 pm)
Detroit at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
Kansas City at Texas
(8:25 pm)
LA Angels at Oakland
(9:05 pm)
NY Mets at LA Dodgers
(9:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact