UFC/PRIDE (Possible Spoilers) - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

UFC/PRIDE (Possible Spoilers)

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby Amazinz » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:22 pm

I think the early UFC clearly showed that most martial styles are not relevant (or at least weren't relevant in their original form). You say they'd be more prevalent but that's really not the way it worked out. There were three art forms that clearly dominated everyone else: BJJ, Wrestling, and Pankration. As far as the "blood sport", I'm not really interested in that. MMA is a great sport that is now respected and sanctioned. I don't have a lot of interest in seeing people die in a ring, having eyes gouged, or ears bitten off, etc. I'd just go back to Boxing and K1. :)
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:36 pm

Amazinz wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:Sure the guys train like crazy and are tough SOBs, but in real life they wouldn't be using the same moves they use on television.

I think you're off base here. BJJ was developed on the streets of Brazil and American-style wrestling is the most effective fight form in any amateur fight I have ever seen. Sports like Karate and TKD are fine sports but these are the types of martial arts that do not translate to real life. There is a reason why you do not see many TKD artists in MMA anymore lol.


I guess my point, and maybe it's an irrelevant one here, is that fighters in UFC are only allowed to use certain moves if I'm not mistaken. Obviously a number of moves are prohibited to prevent death and maiming in the ring. In this sense, it is for entertainment purposes. If these men were involved in a real life situation it would most likely take all of 5 seconds and the "fight" would be over. I guess I look at it as a stripped down version of the "real thing", which cannot, of course, be seen. There are a plethora of moves that cannot be demonstrated and are basically only successful in theory. So this is what turned me off of UFC. And I realize that's probably a ridiculous reason, especially since it's quite possibly the closest we can get to the "real thing", but I have a friend who watches religiously and doesn't believe me when I tell him how much these guys are holding back. He seriously believes they go balls out and I can't believe that. I certainly do not mean to insult the sport you guys are obviously enthusiastic about, but I wanted to put in my 2 cents.....for what it's worth.
Omaha Red Sox
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 11420
(Past Year: 6)
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Probably over there

Postby Amazinz » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:41 pm

Yeah I see what you are saying and I don't disagree with it. But I think this is true of all fight sports. Fight sports are about competition. Ever see Matt Hughes get someone in a crucifix (a wrestling position where you trap both arms)? That is a perfect example for the point you are trying to make. A crucifix in sport is survivable if you are a tough SOB. In real life a crucifix would be deadly because you'd be totally unable to defend your throat.
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:45 pm

Amazinz wrote:I think the early UFC clearly showed that most martial styles are not relevant (or at least weren't relevant in their original form). You say they'd be more prevalent but that's really not the way it worked out. There were three art forms that clearly dominated everyone else: BJJ, Wrestling, and Pankration. As far as the "blood sport", I'm not really interested in that. MMA is a great sport that is now respected and sanctioned. I don't have a lot of interest in seeing people die in a ring, having eyes gouged, or ears bitten off, etc. I'd just go back to Boxing and K1. :)



What I mean by other styles is just that, more bloodsport stuff.

I just miss seeing the biggest Nazi ever break his had on giant 450-lb black dudes type stuff :,-( :-b
Image
Chrisy Moltisanti
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1536
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: 6 feet under

Postby The Miner Part 2 » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:55 pm

Omaha Red Sox wrote:
Amazinz wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:Sure the guys train like crazy and are tough SOBs, but in real life they wouldn't be using the same moves they use on television.

I think you're off base here. BJJ was developed on the streets of Brazil and American-style wrestling is the most effective fight form in any amateur fight I have ever seen. Sports like Karate and TKD are fine sports but these are the types of martial arts that do not translate to real life. There is a reason why you do not see many TKD artists in MMA anymore lol.


I guess my point, and maybe it's an irrelevant one here, is that fighters in UFC are only allowed to use certain moves if I'm not mistaken. Obviously a number of moves are prohibited to prevent death and maiming in the ring. In this sense, it is for entertainment purposes. If these men were involved in a real life situation it would most likely take all of 5 seconds and the "fight" would be over. I guess I look at it as a stripped down version of the "real thing", which cannot, of course, be seen. There are a plethora of moves that cannot be demonstrated and are basically only successful in theory. So this is what turned me off of UFC. And I realize that's probably a ridiculous reason, especially since it's quite possibly the closest we can get to the "real thing", but I have a friend who watches religiously and doesn't believe me when I tell him how much these guys are holding back. He seriously believes they go balls out and I can't believe that. I certainly do not mean to insult the sport you guys are obviously enthusiastic about, but I wanted to put in my 2 cents.....for what it's worth.


Yet you say you're a fan of boxing.. ;-7 Do you hate football because players don't try to break each others legs every play?

Gimmie a break. You're making something out of nothing here.

Oh, and I hate Josh Koscheck.
Image
The Miner Part 2
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 3757
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Throwing rocks at The Cubby Bear.

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:00 pm

It's the name that gets me I think. Boxing is boxing. You only use your fists. It's an old sport that is quite simple by definition. That's why I like it. Ultimate Fighting technically isn't "ultimate". It's the "Most Ultimate You Can See" Fighting. :-b

Your football analogy is not a good one. The object of UFC is to beat your opponent. Literally. The object of a linebacker is simply to stop his opponent. Why break a ball carrier's legs? Makes no sense.
Omaha Red Sox
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 11420
(Past Year: 6)
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Probably over there

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:24 pm

Omaha Red Sox wrote:It's the name that gets me I think. Boxing is boxing. You only use your fists. It's an old sport that is quite simple by definition. That's why I like it. Ultimate Fighting technically isn't "ultimate". It's the "Most Ultimate You Can See" Fighting. :-b

Your football analogy is not a good one. The object of UFC is to beat your opponent. Literally. The object of a linebacker is simply to stop his opponent. Why break a ball carrier's legs? Makes no sense.


Using the same logic, the object in UFC is:

Ways To Win:
1. Submission by:
Physical tap out.
Verbal tap out.
2. Technical knockout by the referee stopping the contest.
3. Decision via the scorecards, including:
Unanimous decision.
Split decision.
Majority decision.
Draw, including:
Unanimous draw.
Majority draw.
Split draw.
4. Technical decision.
5. Technical draw.
6. Disqualification.
7. Forfeit.
8. No contest.

Without doing this:

1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.


Taking an axe on the football field and cutting a players head off would be the most effective way to stop him, but you don't do that either.
Image
Chrisy Moltisanti
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1536
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: 6 feet under

Postby The Miner Part 2 » Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:44 pm

Omaha Red Sox wrote:It's the name that gets me I think. Boxing is boxing. You only use your fists. It's an old sport that is quite simple by definition. That's why I like it. Ultimate Fighting technically isn't "ultimate". It's the "Most Ultimate You Can See" Fighting. :-b

Your football analogy is not a good one. The object of UFC is to beat your opponent. Literally. The object of a linebacker is simply to stop his opponent. Why break a ball carrier's legs? Makes no sense.


I think breaking a ball carriers legs may lead to stopping the ball carrier. I could be way off though..

I can't believe this is even a discussion. You can make this type arguement about anything you want. Nit-picking 101.

The point of UFC is to win your bout while following the guidelines of that sport. Just because they aren't allowed to try to kill someone doesn't mean that they aren't giving 100%, while following the rules of the sport.
Image
The Miner Part 2
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 3757
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Throwing rocks at The Cubby Bear.

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:03 pm

The Miner Part 2 wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:It's the name that gets me I think. Boxing is boxing. You only use your fists. It's an old sport that is quite simple by definition. That's why I like it. Ultimate Fighting technically isn't "ultimate". It's the "Most Ultimate You Can See" Fighting. :-b

Your football analogy is not a good one. The object of UFC is to beat your opponent. Literally. The object of a linebacker is simply to stop his opponent. Why break a ball carrier's legs? Makes no sense.


I think breaking a ball carriers legs may lead to stopping the ball carrier. I could be way off though..

I can't believe this is even a discussion. You can make this type arguement about anything you want. Nit-picking 101.

The point of UFC is to win your bout while following the guidelines of that sport. Just because they aren't allowed to try to kill someone doesn't mean that they aren't giving 100%, while following the rules of the sport.


I don't think this 'argument', if that's what you want to call it, can be made about every sport. Chances are a UFCer has great knowledge pertaining to all sorts of methods of disabling his opponent. Moves that he knows but will never use.

A football player cannot say this. He has never been coached on how to break his opponent's legs.

There's the difference and why your analogy is not a good one. A UFCer has probably been shown how to kill his opponent, while a football player has not. The UFCer has great control over his skills and harness them in as they pertain to his sport. A football player can fly around aimlessly if he wishes and will not generally be penalized for it or break his opponent's legs.

And I believe I mentioned earlier that this was only another way of looking at it. My way of looking at it. I mentioned that it may very well not be relevant in this discussion.
Omaha Red Sox
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 11420
(Past Year: 6)
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Probably over there

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:06 pm

The Miner Part 2 wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:It's the name that gets me I think. Boxing is boxing. You only use your fists. It's an old sport that is quite simple by definition. That's why I like it. Ultimate Fighting technically isn't "ultimate". It's the "Most Ultimate You Can See" Fighting. :-b

Your football analogy is not a good one. The object of UFC is to beat your opponent. Literally. The object of a linebacker is simply to stop his opponent. Why break a ball carrier's legs? Makes no sense.


I think breaking a ball carriers legs may lead to stopping the ball carrier. I could be way off though..

I can't believe this is even a discussion. You can make this type arguement about anything you want. Nit-picking 101.

The point of UFC is to win your bout while following the guidelines of that sport. Just because they aren't allowed to try to kill someone doesn't mean that they aren't giving 100%, while following the rules of the sport.


Exactly. Randy Myers (BB) could have just attacked the batter instead of pitching to him if he really wanted to prevent him from getting a hit, Bo Jackson could've just bashed everyone's head in with the bat and run around the bases, John Rocker... Ty Cobb ... etc... but just as in UFC, if you don't follow the rules you don't win. UFC is a sport, not guerrilla warfare. Yes that would be cool, but it would be inept from a fans and businesses standpoint. The most valuable assets / liked players or fighters would consistently get seriously injured or dead, unless Conan came along, but he'd just kill everyone.
Image
Chrisy Moltisanti
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1536
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: 6 feet under

PreviousNext

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Monday, Sep. 1
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Philadelphia at Atlanta
(1:10 pm)
NY Mets at Miami
(1:10 pm)
indoors
Boston at Tampa Bay
(1:10 pm)
indoors
Minnesota at Baltimore
(1:35 pm)
Pittsburgh at St. Louis
(2:15 pm)
Milwaukee at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
Seattle at Oakland
(4:05 pm)
Detroit at Cleveland
(4:05 pm)
San Francisco at Colorado
(4:10 pm)
Arizona at San Diego
(4:10 pm)
Texas at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Washington at LA Dodgers
(8:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact