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714? Not so fast.

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714? Not so fast.

Postby Matthias » Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:09 pm

Hm. An email my girlfriend sent to me mentioned that Ruth apparently had seven hundred and FIFTEEN home runs but isn't credited with one because of existing rules at the time (and may have lost more due to rules on fair/foul). Anyone ever hear this one before?

http://www4.stat.ncsu.edu/~reiland/baseball.html

Until 1920, in the last of the ninth inning or in the bottom of an extra inning, home runs that drove in the winning run ahead of them were scored only as singles, doubles, or triples, according to how many bases the baserunner needed to advance to score the winning run. For example, if the batter hit a home run in the bottom of the ninth inning with a teammate on third base and the score tied, the batter was credited with only a single. Under current rules, the batter would be credited with a "walk-off" home run and the home team would win by two runs.

In 1918 Babe Ruth hit a "home run" with a teammate on first base in the bottom of the ninth inning of a tied game. Under the rules of the day, Ruth was credited with a triple.

In 1968 the Special Baseball Records Committee voted to restore home runs to players who had lost credit for them because of the above-mentioned pre-1920 rule. But even people in power tinker with baseball's traditions and statistics at great peril. After a hyper-decibel outcry by casual and serious fans, the committee changed its mind in 1969.
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Postby Field » Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:23 pm

If I'm not mistaken weren't ground rule doubles a homerun back in Ruth's day. So it all works out somewhat I guess.

Wikipedia-

"Originally, all batted balls that cleared the fence after a bounce in fair territory or on a fly were counted as home runs. The rule was changed by the American League prior to the 1930 season and was subsequently adopted by the National League on December 12, 1930."

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_rule_double
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Postby Matthias » Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:26 pm

Yah. I saw that mentioned as well. Although the thing I read said that Ruth didn't have any HRs of that variety. But I'm no baseball historian so don't know if that's accurate or not.

In any case, just read it and thought it was interesting.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:29 pm

Matthias wrote:Yah. I saw that mentioned as well. Although the thing I read said that Ruth didn't have any HRs of that variety. But I'm no baseball historian so don't know if that's accurate or not.

In any case, just read it and thought it was interesting.


I'd have a hard time believing that Ruth never had a "ground rule double." But maybe...
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Postby CadensDad » Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:53 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Matthias wrote:Yah. I saw that mentioned as well. Although the thing I read said that Ruth didn't have any HRs of that variety. But I'm no baseball historian so don't know if that's accurate or not.

In any case, just read it and thought it was interesting.


I'd have a hard time believing that Ruth never had a "ground rule double." But maybe...


I'm sure he had a few ground rule doubles, but back in those days the feilds where not as wide and there was alot more foul ball room on the sides.
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Postby Krunk City King$ » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:12 am

Josh Gibson 962 HRs > Sadaharu Oh 868 HRs >Hank Aaron 755 HRs > Babe Ruths ground rule doubles.....


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Postby jlm53089 » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:51 am

Well Ruth played in the dead ball era anyway, if he played today or when Aaron played i guarntee at least 100 more homers. They played in fields that were 500 ft deep(polo grounds)... it doesn't matter its history.
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Postby Tavish » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:58 am

jlm53089 wrote:Well Ruth played in the dead ball era anyway, if he played today or when Aaron played i guarntee at least 100 more homers. They played in fields that were 500 ft deep(polo grounds)... it doesn't matter its history.


Ruth played a couple of seasons in the dead ball era. The majority of his career was spent in a great offensive era. Baseball of the late 20s and 30s was as kind if not moreso to hitters than the game today.
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Postby jlm53089 » Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:22 pm

before ruth the most homeruns in a season was 13... and no one would hit 40 homeruns till 20 years after ruth so it is nothing like today.
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Postby Tavish » Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:53 pm

jlm53089 wrote:before ruth the most homeruns in a season was 13... and no one would hit 40 homeruns till 20 years after ruth so it is nothing like today.


What? There were several guys who hit 20+ before Ruth. Ruth retired in 1935.

Guys who hit 40+ HR during Ruth's career:

Hack Wilson (hit 58 HR in 1930)
Chuck Klein (2 seasons of 40+ in the early 30s)
Mel Ott
Rogers Hornsby
Cy Williams
Lou Gehrig (5 seasons of 40+)
Jimmie Foxx (5 seasons of 40+ including 2 50+)

Then you have guys like Greenberg, Trosky, who had several 40+ seasons before the 1940s. Dimaggio had his 40+ HR season two years after Ruth retired. This doesn't count all of the 37/38/39 HR seasons by guys like Wally Berger and Gabby Hartnett that had a good chance of being 40 HR seasons but the teams only played 154 games in a season.
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