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Is Santana the clear cut Cy Young winner?

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Postby pokerplaya » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:03 pm

Santana...so good... :-° ;-D
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Postby superfly » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:10 pm

If it wasn't clear before, it is after tonight. He should have 3 straight Cy's if the voters weren't so biased for wins.
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Postby Kingctb27 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:14 pm

superfly wrote:If it wasn't clear before, it is after tonight. He should have 3 straight Cy's if the voters weren't so biased for wins.

Agreed.

Halladay who?
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Postby Yoda » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:08 am

Halladay is a great pitcher. Santana is an awesome one.
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Postby mweir145 » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:11 am

kingctb27 wrote:Halladay who?

Come on, don't throw out comments like that. The guy is a top starter that has pitched as well as anybody in the majors outside of Santana, and he's had a very good season. Johan has just been a little bit better and has pulled away in this race with a few amazing starts while Halladay was getting incredibly unlucky. It's no knock on Doc.
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Postby Laean » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:22 am

raiders_umpire wrote:
Lime wrote:
If this was fantasy baseball, Santana is #1. In the real world, Santana is better in one aspect over Doc and one aspect only, strikeouts.




I guess BAA is not a real world stat then as Santana has a BAA of .221 and Halladay's is .260. Halladay has had a great year, but he is behind Santana right now for the year.


i don't think this is really fair, since halladay is a groundball pitcher. he's bound to have higher baa since some will get past the defense. that's his strategy. as long as the Ws and ERA is still there, i don't really think a higher baa from a groundball pitcher is relevant. especially vs a strikeout pitcher like santana, who's going to have lower baa guaranteed due to his style/strategy, not higher level of performance.

anyway, with all that said, i think the argument that halladay has been more impressive this season due to pitching in the AL East is BS as well.

it's close, and if it was up to me i couldn't really say off the top of my head who would win, but i'm going to guess that the voters are going to go with halladay. he's won it before, and he'll probably finish with more Ws.
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Postby superfly » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:38 am

Laean wrote:i don't think this is really fair, since halladay is a groundball pitcher. he's bound to have higher baa since some will get past the defense. that's his strategy. as long as the Ws and ERA is still there, i don't really think a higher baa from a groundball pitcher is relevant. especially vs a strikeout pitcher like santana, who's going to have lower baa guaranteed due to his style/strategy, not higher level of performance.


I'm pretty sure allowing the opponent to get more hits is not Halladay's strategy so yes a lower BAA is very relevant.
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Postby pokerplaya » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:39 am

Laean wrote:
raiders_umpire wrote:
Lime wrote:
If this was fantasy baseball, Santana is #1. In the real world, Santana is better in one aspect over Doc and one aspect only, strikeouts.




I guess BAA is not a real world stat then as Santana has a BAA of .221 and Halladay's is .260. Halladay has had a great year, but he is behind Santana right now for the year.


i don't think this is really fair, since halladay is a groundball pitcher. he's bound to have higher baa since some will get past the defense. that's his strategy. as long as the Ws and ERA is still there, i don't really think a higher baa from a groundball pitcher is relevant. especially vs a strikeout pitcher like santana, who's going to have lower baa guaranteed due to his style/strategy, not higher level of performance.

anyway, with all that said, i think the argument that halladay has been more impressive this season due to pitching in the AL East is BS as well.

it's close, and if it was up to me i couldn't really say off the top of my head who would win, but i'm going to guess that the voters are going to go with halladay. he's won it before, and he'll probably finish with more Ws.


You really think Halladay is the frontrunner?

You say Halladay has won it before, but so has Santana, and his numbers are better than Halladay across the board. There is no question in my mind if the season ended today, and barring an absolute implosion, it's going to be Santana. His stats are simply better.
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Postby Laean » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:59 am

pokerplaya wrote:
Laean wrote:
raiders_umpire wrote:
Lime wrote:
If this was fantasy baseball, Santana is #1. In the real world, Santana is better in one aspect over Doc and one aspect only, strikeouts.




I guess BAA is not a real world stat then as Santana has a BAA of .221 and Halladay's is .260. Halladay has had a great year, but he is behind Santana right now for the year.


i don't think this is really fair, since halladay is a groundball pitcher. he's bound to have higher baa since some will get past the defense. that's his strategy. as long as the Ws and ERA is still there, i don't really think a higher baa from a groundball pitcher is relevant. especially vs a strikeout pitcher like santana, who's going to have lower baa guaranteed due to his style/strategy, not higher level of performance.

anyway, with all that said, i think the argument that halladay has been more impressive this season due to pitching in the AL East is BS as well.

it's close, and if it was up to me i couldn't really say off the top of my head who would win, but i'm going to guess that the voters are going to go with halladay. he's won it before, and he'll probably finish with more Ws.


You really think Halladay is the frontrunner?

You say Halladay has won it before, but so has Santana, and his numbers are better than Halladay across the board. There is no question in my mind if the season ended today, and barring an absolute implosion, it's going to be Santana. His stats are simply better.


actually no. i've been busy, and haven't been checking up on the stats lately. i checked now, and see that santana has halladay beat in even Ws and etc. he is the front runner.
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Postby Laean » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:01 am

superfly wrote:
Laean wrote:i don't think this is really fair, since halladay is a groundball pitcher. he's bound to have higher baa since some will get past the defense. that's his strategy. as long as the Ws and ERA is still there, i don't really think a higher baa from a groundball pitcher is relevant. especially vs a strikeout pitcher like santana, who's going to have lower baa guaranteed due to his style/strategy, not higher level of performance.


I'm pretty sure allowing the opponent to get more hits is not Halladay's strategy so yes a lower BAA is very relevant.


i'm pretty sure when your strategy is to get groundballs instead of strikes, you're going to end up giving up more some hits, so no a lower BAA is very not relevant in evaluating whether or not you're a more effective starting pitcher than another pitcher who happens to be a strikeout pitcher.
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