Is Santana the clear cut Cy Young winner? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Is Santana the clear cut Cy Young winner?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby tinfoilxtouch » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:34 pm

mweir145 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:To me, if anyone other than Johan wins it, it's a sham.

Even if Halladay runs the table and puts up 22 wins or something like that with a sub 3 ERA near Santana's you'd consider it a sham? :-?

Sure if the award was given today I'd think you'd give it to Santana. But there isn't as wide a margin between the two as many of you seem to be suggesting.


In all honestly, I think that Johan, Verlander, or Halladay winning would all be totally fair and logical scenerios. At this point, any of those three could finish the season with more wins and a better ERA than the other two. Of course Verlander doesn't have the name recognition to draw as many votes, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be mentioned here.
tinfoilxtouch
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1057
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby RynMan » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:45 pm

bigh0rt wrote:To me, if anyone other than Johan wins it, it's a sham.


As of right now I agree.....but we've seen how much stock baseball writers put into meaningless statistics.

Hootie: Thanks for doing all the work in this thread - thought I was going to have to bring out the old Quality of Batters Faced. Completely agree with everything you said.
Image
RynMan
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerAward-Winning Graphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 8891
Joined: 4 Feb 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Oztailia

Postby DirtyKash » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:52 pm

Santana has pulled away in the race! This guy is filthy!
DirtyKash
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 144
Joined: 5 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby mweir145 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:57 pm

DirtyKash wrote:Santana has pulled away in the race! This guy is filthy!

Yeah, at the moment Santana has superior numbers and more wins than Halladay. He should win barring a collapse in these last weeks.

In defense of Doc, his last 3 starts have involved a CG loss, a start in which his outfielder batted a ball into the stands with his hands for a HR that lost the game, and a game where he left leading in the 8th only to have the bullpen blow one. :-/
25
mweir145
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Eagle Eye
Posts: 16784
(Past Year: 10)
Joined: 3 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Toronto

Postby dipset » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:07 pm

Santana has more strikeouts, which means its harder to hit. If its harder to hit, he is a better pitcher which = Cy Young!! ;-D
Image
dipset
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1119
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby davidmarver » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:22 pm

mweir145 wrote:In defense of Doc, his last 3 starts have involved a CG loss, a start in which his outfielder batted a ball into the stands with his hands for a HR that lost the game, and a game where he left leading in the 8th only to have the bullpen blow one. :-/

That is pretty tough, but, by the same token, Halladay has been pretty blessed this year. Halladay has had the 14th best run support in MLB, 6.20, getting the best run support of any Blue Jay. Santana has had the 57th best run support in MLB, 4.90, getting the worst run support of any Twin.

Johan has 20 quality starts, Halladay has 17. Both have 0 tough losses.

Batters have an OPS of .619 against Johan, 79% of their regular OPS of .777. Batters have an OPS of .653 against Halladay, or 86% of their regular OPS of .763.

Johan is the clear winner to me right now.
Image
davidmarver
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 ChampionLucky Ladders Weekly WinnerTrivia Time Trial Monthly Winner
Posts: 6154
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 5.5 Hole

Postby The Big Stick » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:23 pm

bigh0rt wrote:To me, if anyone other than Johan wins it, it's a sham.


Those of you who know me, knows I love Doc but it's Santana.
Image
Signature by: RedWoodTree824
______________
"Major League Baseball's most storied franchise, winning 26 World Series titles in 39 appearances"!
The Big Stick
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 593
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: At The Stadium With The Bleacher Creatures.

Postby go_jays_go » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:33 pm

I think they just nailed the coffin shut.

I was a Halladay believer but clearly it's Johan "The Cy" Santana.
Image
go_jays_go
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 10462
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Toronto, Canada

Postby mweir145 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:38 pm

davidmarver wrote:
mweir145 wrote:In defense of Doc, his last 3 starts have involved a CG loss, a start in which his outfielder batted a ball into the stands with his hands for a HR that lost the game, and a game where he left leading in the 8th only to have the bullpen blow one. :-/

That is pretty tough, but, by the same token, Halladay has been pretty blessed this year. Halladay has had the 14th best run support in MLB, 6.20, getting the best run support of any Blue Jay. Santana has had the 57th best run support in MLB, 4.90, getting the worst run support of any Twin.

Johan has 20 quality starts, Halladay has 17. Both have 0 tough losses.

Batters have an OPS of .619 against Johan, 79% of their regular OPS of .777. Batters have an OPS of .653 against Halladay, or 86% of their regular OPS of .763.

Johan is the clear winner to me right now.

Oh, I do know all this, and I would agree Johan has been been better.

It just doesn't feel good to watch your favourite pitcher have this kind of luck 3 starts in succession.

BTW, are you sure you have that tough losses stat right? He pitched a 2 ER CG a week and a half ago and lost 2-0.
25
mweir145
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Eagle Eye
Posts: 16784
(Past Year: 10)
Joined: 3 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Toronto

Postby davidmarver » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:44 pm

mweir145 wrote:BTW, are you sure you have that tough losses stat right? He pitched a 2 ER CG a week and a half ago and lost 2-0.

Wow...ESPN's statistics are wrong.

Their tough loss glossary reads:
ESPN Glossary wrote:Losses in games started that are quality starts.


Halladay did pitch a two run complete game loss...that should be a tough loss, but it's not listed on ESPN's stat page. I went though and counted Johan's stats, just to make sure, and he has two losses in quality starts. Just another reason why you shouldn't use ESPN's stat page. especially for runs created among left-fielders
Image
davidmarver
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 ChampionLucky Ladders Weekly WinnerTrivia Time Trial Monthly Winner
Posts: 6154
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 5.5 Hole

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: joiingds and 7 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Sunday, Aug. 31
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

NY Yankees at Toronto
(1:07 pm)
Philadelphia at NY Mets
(1:10 pm)
Minnesota at Baltimore
(1:35 pm)
Cincinnati at Pittsburgh
(1:35 pm)
Boston at Tampa Bay
(1:40 pm)
indoors
Detroit at Chi White Sox
(2:10 pm)
Texas at Houston
(2:10 pm)
Chi Cubs at St. Louis
(2:15 pm)
Oakland at LA Angels
(3:35 pm)
Milwaukee at San Francisco
(4:05 pm)
Colorado at Arizona
(4:10 pm)
LA Dodgers at San Diego
(4:10 pm)
Washington at Seattle
(4:10 pm)
Miami at Atlanta
(5:10 pm)
Cleveland at Kansas City
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact