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Is Santana the clear cut Cy Young winner?

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Postby Junkie Cosmonaut » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:43 pm

tinfoilxtouch wrote:There is a guy named Verlander you might not want to forget about.


Verlander hit the wall, he'll be lucky to go .500 in the rest of his starts
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Postby s221506 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:47 pm

I don't think it is that cut and dry.

The AL East and Central are comparable offense-wise.

East AL Rankings in R's first then OPS

2/2 Yankees
3/1 Boston
6/3 Toronto
9/9 Baltimore
14/13 Tampa Bay

Central

1/4 White Sox
4/5 Indians
7/7 Tigers
8/8 Twins
11/11 Royals

The difference in competetion doesn't seem to be that great to me. Especially considering Halladay doesn't have to face his own team and also gets the benefit of pitching for them(probably either the 4 or 5 best offense in the AL).

Of course, their is a difference but, "for anyone who understands baseball", the effects of these #'s are very debatable.
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Postby BritSox » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:52 pm

Of course it's not clear-cut. That ERA difference isn't insurmountable by any stretch of the imagination. It's like two runs on the season so far or something. A week or so ago, they had .001 in ERA between them. If Halladay ends up with the lower ERA and more wins, he takes the Cy, however many other peripheral statistics anyone digs u in support of Johan.
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Postby giants! » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:52 pm

Lime wrote:
giants! wrote:Santana has a better era than Halladay, a higher whip, a better k/bb ratio, almost 90 more strikeouts, one less win, a better PRC(Pitching Runs Created), a better FIP ( Fielding Independant ERA), and one more win share than Halladay. I can't even find one statistic which shows why Halladay is a better pitcher.


A 3.18 ERA pitching in the AL East is a much greater feat than a 3.03 ERA pitching in the AL Central.

A 1.10 WHIP pitching in the AL East is a much greater feat than a 1.03 WHIP pitching in the AL Central.

Records. Halladay is 16-3. Santana is 15-5.

If this was fantasy baseball, Santana is #1. In the real world, Santana is better in one aspect over Doc and one aspect only, strikeouts.


Halladay is not better in the real world though. Records are meaningless. Three times this year Santana has given up 2 runs or less and not gotten a win. That has not happened once to Halladay. Win-Loss stats ae so irrelevant because they are completely determined by the production of others on the team. In the real world, one with normal run support for both players, Santana is better than Halladay.
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Postby ARCH » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:04 pm

Wins are the most important criteria for winning a Cy and at this stage Halladay has a slight advantage there. If Halladay wins 20 and Santana doesn't then assuming Halladay's other numbers stay about where they are right now he will win it over Santana.
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Postby mweir145 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:09 pm

ARCH wrote:Wins are the most important criteria for winning a Cy and at this stage Halladay has a slight advantage there. If Halladay wins 20 and Santana doesn't then assuming Halladay's other numbers stay about where they are right now he will win it over Santana.

This is what I believe might happen too.
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Postby raiders_umpire » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:11 pm

Lime wrote:
If this was fantasy baseball, Santana is #1. In the real world, Santana is better in one aspect over Doc and one aspect only, strikeouts.




I guess BAA is not a real world stat then as Santana has a BAA of .221 and Halladay's is .260. Halladay has had a great year, but he is behind Santana right now for the year.
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:11 pm

ESPN's Cy predictor actually has Halladay 2nd and 3rd...behind Papelbon
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Postby bdrotoronto » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:39 pm

Santana has probably been a better pitcher than Halladay this year, but in a 'justice' sense things would probably even out if Halladay wins it b/c he was well on pace to win the Cy last year before he had the injury. Halladay was absolutely dominant in '05. He hasn't been as good this year, but when you think about it, the fact he is 16-3 on a team that has otherwise been sub-.500 is really pretty remarkable. If the Twins don't make the playoffs, I'm not sure what the obvious factor would be for suggesting Santana must be more deserving. If the Twins make the wild-card then I think that could be a difference-maker in the minds of many voters.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:56 pm

Lime wrote:Halladay is the Cy Young for anyone who understands baseball.


Explain that comment?
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