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Postby acsguitar » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:02 pm

Tavish wrote:[quote="Madison]As to the Firefox myths a simple search (at the top in blue) would have found it, but here you go:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/FirefoxMyths.html

Make sure to scroll down to the security part and you'll get gems like this complete with links:

Myth - "Firefox is Secure" - Example

Reality - Firefox is anything but Secure with multiple unpatched vulnerabilities allowing exposure of sensitive data to local users.


Amazing how quickly myths move and spread with no one checking the facts behind the claims. I'd say something about "sheep", but that's Wrveres's line. :-b


Before you start calling everyone sheep and suggesting they research the facts about Firefox might I suggest the same to you about the facts behind "Firefox Myths"? In many cases his statements very inaccurate, in some cases they are outright fabrications.[/quote]

Insecure to local users doesn't mean that much. Basically that means don't use firefox on a public machine
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Postby Madison » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:16 pm

Tavish wrote:Before you start calling everyone sheep and suggesting they research the facts about Firefox might I suggest the same to you about the facts behind "Firefox Myths"? In many cases his statements very inaccurate, in some cases they are outright fabrications.


I didn't call anyone a sheep, I said it was Wrveres's line, and I've done enough research to know that Firefox isn't as safe as the IE bashers make it out to be. I've even had one of my firewalls pop up laughing because a Firefox only virus tried to attack me, of course, it also told me I had nothing to worry about since I'm on IE. :-b

Make no mistake, I'm not saying IE is safer or anything than Firefox, I'm just pointing it out that Firefox is not nearly as safe as the IE haters try to make people believe. No matter which browser I use, there's no way I'd be online without being behind at least 2 firewalls. ;-)

Here's the thing though. There are very few Firefox users. Most people who use Firefox bash the heck out of IE for really zero reason and with little reasoning. I respect Firefox users, but when it comes to the IE bashers, people are going to fire back sometimes because hearing the same old garbage gets old. Just the way it is.

Really no different than a Yankee fan, and a Red Sox hater. The Yankee fan has solid conversations, while the Red Sox hater just throws stuff out and bashes the Sox. People tend to leave the Yankee fan alone, or even respect him, but no one cares about the Red Sox hater, and people will shoot down the Red Sox hater from time to time when hearing the same old garbage gets old. ;-)

Oh, and I should note that I don't see BitterDodgerFan as an IE hater, it just seemed like a good opportunity to remind everyone that Firefox is definitely not as safe as some people think. ;-)
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Postby BitterDodgerFan » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:17 pm

Amazing how quickly myths move and spread with no one checking the facts behind the claims. I'd say something about "sheep", but that's Wrveres's line. :-b


thanks for the link. while i agree with some of those points, my basis on recommending firefox is not from what i've read or "spread of myth," but from my experiences. the article, although it is obviously biased against fanboyism of firefox is correct in saying ff is not the answer to all that is wrong with IE. im not saying you can surf the web dangerously but its okay as long as you use ff. what i am saying is by using ff, it will filter out a lot of spyware that uses IE as an entry point, and targets IE specific protocols. hell, like the guy said, ff might download those toolbar files, but it wont be able to execute them and install on a mozilla browser. i dont know about other areas of security, but as far as spyware and infection during browsing is concerned, i can personally say from experience that mozilla based browser will cause less damage. ive had to fix a lot of these infected PCs and seen them get infected firsthand, and to me, these sort of things dont happen browsing w/ ff.

i dont like it when some people assume i say something because i mustve heard it somewhere or its the cool thing to do. granted, i havent used much of IE since SP2, and im sure it has improved, i still wont recommend using it and most people in the tech world dont either. im not the only one recommending ff, and i dont think majority of them do because they're mozilla fanboys. i am not here to sway you away to FF with technical data and jargon, but i say from experience.

anyways i dont want to turn this into a firefox vs IE debate, and im sorry for my ramblings. all i was doing was recommending FF and i get shelled for being a sheep and a follower of myth...
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Postby Madison » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:19 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:Since wr can't come in here anymore, I can help you Mad...

Image BAA!

:-D


Awesome! I was actually looking for that earlier to use in the stupid Snakes in a Plane thread. Thanks! ;-D

:-b :-b
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Postby BitterDodgerFan » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:31 pm

Madison wrote:
Tavish wrote:Before you start calling everyone sheep and suggesting they research the facts about Firefox might I suggest the same to you about the facts behind "Firefox Myths"? In many cases his statements very inaccurate, in some cases they are outright fabrications.


I didn't call anyone a sheep, I said it was Wrveres's line, and I've done enough research to know that Firefox isn't as safe as the IE bashers make it out to be. I've even had one of my firewalls pop up laughing because a Firefox only virus tried to attack me, of course, it also told me I had nothing to worry about since I'm on IE. :-b

Make no mistake, I'm not saying IE is safer or anything than Firefox, I'm just pointing it out that Firefox is not nearly as safe as the IE haters try to make people believe. No matter which browser I use, there's no way I'd be online without being behind at least 2 firewalls. ;-)

Here's the thing though. There are very few Firefox users. Most people who use Firefox bash the heck out of IE for really zero reason and with little reasoning. I respect Firefox users, but when it comes to the IE bashers, people are going to fire back sometimes because hearing the same old garbage gets old. Just the way it is.

Really no different than a Yankee fan, and a Red Sox hater. The Yankee fan has solid conversations, while the Red Sox hater just throws stuff out and bashes the Sox. People tend to leave the Yankee fan alone, or even respect him, but no one cares about the Red Sox hater, and people will shoot down the Red Sox hater from time to time when hearing the same old garbage gets old. ;-)

Oh, and I should note that I don't see BitterDodgerFan as an IE hater, it just seemed like a good opportunity to remind everyone that Firefox is definitely not as safe as some people think. ;-)


for every 1 firefox specific virus thats around, there is probably 100 more IE specific ones. i cant prove it, but this is the case with virus these days. just as virus coders target windows OS vs a mac os or unix, because most of world's PCs are running on windows and IE, more virus/spyware will be written with targeting IE users in mind. i think its almost 90% of browsers in US, 75-80% in europe, and 95% in asia. im not an IE basher, i just want to stay away from what virus/spywares like to target.

this is not my word, but it sums up my points rather nicely.

Is Firefox more secure than Internet Explorer?

Yes, Firefox and all other Mozilla-based products are more secure. Why? Here is a list of the most important reasons:

* It is not integrated with Windows, which helps prevent viruses and hackers from causing damage if they somehow manage to compromise Firefox.
* There is no support for VBScript and ActiveX, two technologies which are the reasons for many IE security holes.
* No spyware/adware software can automatically install in Firefox just by visiting a web site.
* Firefox doesn’t use Microsoft’s Java VM, which has a history of more flaws than other Java VMs.


and no offense taken for the sheep reference.

EDIT: oh and upon reading the myths more carefully, i noticed it was more BS than facts, so i was compelled to do some research on it. it looks like im not the only one.

http://nanobox.chipx86.com/blog/2005/12/re-firefox-myths.php
http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic44405.html
http://www.techspot.com/staff/56/firefox-myths-debunked-part-2/
http://robert.accettura.com/archives/2005/12/19/firefox-myths/
http://blog.thingoid.com/2006/01/the-myth-of-firefox-myths/
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Postby Coppermine » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:43 pm

For the record, whether or not firefox is "secure" is relatively irrelevent, especially in the IT community. As far as being vulnerable to malicious software attacks, spyware and viruses, it's certainly not invulnerable to any of these things.

As compared, however, to IE 6, Firefox is quite secure, and up to the release of IE 7 will likely remain one of the most secure browsers available.

No browser can tell you "If you download this pornograhic video, your computer will die." Security online is only as good as the user's common sense.
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Postby Madison » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:47 pm

I guess for me it's just a matter of having enough security measures in place that it doesn't matter what browser you use. I could switch over to Firefox right now and not be any safer than I currently am, but I've got enough spyware removers/blockers, and firewalls in place that browser choice is irrelevant. The thought of even plugging in a machine without those safeguards is far more dangerous than what browser is chosen, in my opinion.

I'll freely admit that if there have been major changes in the last year or so, I'm probably behind the times on all the current browser changes/issues, so it's possible I'm way off base. What I do know is there is no such thing as a safe browser for the internet, and last I checked Opera was the safest of them all, not that it really matters any as people should have enough safeguards in place that it doesn't matter what browser they use.
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Postby acsguitar » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:55 pm

Personally I've gone years without turning a firewall on and never had my identity stolen or got a virus from normal surfing. I have gotten virus's from downloading questionable .exe files that I thought were keygens/no cd's

Anyways thats just my 2 cents. Also though if my harddrive blows up I know how to fix it so I don't worry about it
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Postby BitterDodgerFan » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:45 pm

i apologize for extending this thread, but i think the people who read the myths are going to be terribly misinformed, so just a heads up.

sorry madison, but upon my readings (the links i posted earlier), it seems like the guy who wrote the myths turns out to have no credibility, as he was caught around the tech forums using several names to promote his webpage and bash ff and has been banned. he has also misquoted many people around the 'net and used false reports and tests for his myths page. some think he's doing all this to generate money for his adsense clicks.

the funniest argument i can find that the author wrote arguing the debunk is:

Firefox is irrefutably not “secure” no matter how many excuses you make.

So long as Firefox can download executables and includes the extension system XPCOM which is similar to ActiveX, it is irrefutably no more secure for not having ActiveX.


ok, he's comparing firefox extension to ActiveX. those of you who use firefox know that you have never been asked to install an XPCOM object that they did not request, unlike activex. that is the worst argument you can make against ff being insecure. plus, the purpose of ff extension is way different than activex object. so he's comparing a protocol that has never been used for infection to one that has been known for repeatedly infiltrating pcs.

madison, if you read all the links i posted last page, you will see the browser you use DOES matter, and the real myth is the ff myth itself.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:32 pm

Well, system checkpoint isn't a solution because the computer has so many problem when I first came here a week ago(I'm using my parent's computer in China, man I hate laptops!) I'll just try to fix it one by one slowly
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