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Delmon might be called up today!

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Postby The Loveable Losers » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:56 pm

And just to be clear I don't think the TB FO has done a sparkling job at handling these guys. But that doesn't change the fact that there are a few of you posting here that feel like Delmon Young should be up IMMEDIATELY regardless of any arguments to the contrary and anyone that disagrees just doesn't get it. This situation simply isn't as clear cut as that and there's definitely room to argue either side here.
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Postby scr » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:31 pm

The Loveable Losers wrote:
scr wrote:
buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:
BTW, the "small market" argument doesn't work. If you cannot compete, get out of the business, because you have no business running a MLB team if you don't know how to compete. Every small market team receives enough payroll tax revenues from the large market teams to level the playing field and sign/pay their players.



Firstly, some owners buy/run their teams as a business. I don't necessarily agree with this philosophy, but if I was making $20 million per year on an MLB team, I'm sure I wouldn't really care what the fans thought, nor would I sign guys that would make me lose money just so that the team could be "competitive".

Secondly, it's not a level playing field. Do you honestly believe that the Royals, Twins, etc. could afford to pay $100 million on their payroll, in addition to expenses like scouting, etc.....



The payroll tax revenue sharing system was implementing for the express purpose of creating large scale revenue for the smaller market teams to be used towards signing players. The small market owners have, by and large, decided to pocket the money instead of investing in their clubs. If those small market teams put the payroll tax revenue to work as designed by the intent of the tax itself, teams would be a heck of alot more competitive than they presently are.

Nobody is saying that the Rays FO should be playing their players 100 million dollars. In order to compete, you should be able to pay your players much less than 100mill (see Marlins). To screw with a person's career because you want to delay the person's ability to earn a living is really crazy in principle. Doesn't anyone listen to what they are saying????? For some reason it's OK to screw with a minor league ballplayer (those spoiled little brats), when none of us would ever put up with such a screwing at our own places of employment. Sounds alot like a double standard.


Nobody in the business world ever gets held back from a promotion due to business issues (other people in the position, company needs them at the lower level job, office politics, etc) even though they deserve the promotion? Can I move to that world? ;)




In the real world, if you are held back from a promotion, you can move on to another place of employment to advance. In baseball, minor leaguers are bound by contract and must wait until free agency to find another place of employment.


My point is that the position of defending management for the service time issue flies in the face of management's publically stated position that it is not about service time, but about leaning how to play baseball and being ready for the big leagues.

If management takes this public position, and then uses the excuse that there are more "deserving" players ready for the big leagues, then we are going off management's public position of promoting on a talent/learning basis.

I don't know whether Young should be up immedietly or not. He may just be a product of the hype machine. Who knows, but if the Rays are not going anywhere this year, it sure would be nice to see if there's a reason to go to the Trop next year. A look at these supposed super-talents would go far in that regard. To delay this process with some lame "more deserved" comment leaves the fan frustrated even more. What does "more deserved" mean? You get the feeling they just keep grasping for reasons to keep this kid in the minors, when because of their reasoning, the fans want to see this kid even more.
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Postby wrveres » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:40 pm

scr wrote:It is very clear to me that the Tampa media and the TBFO are working in concert to keep these kids down in the minors. Strategically planting numerous negative articles in the news about players the FO wants to keep down in the minors, while writing even more positive articles about the front office conspire to ratify this argument.


This is good stuff ..
so is that everybody in the Tampa media? .. I mean all of them. ;-7 Every sports reporter, or did the Tamba Bay front office just use American Shipbuildings funds to buy off just two or three reporters so that they could keep Young in the minors. I am curious as to just how big this conspiracy is.
How much money do you think they are paying the Tampa Bay reporters so that they don't have to pay Young.. again just curious.

scr wrote:BTW, the "small market" argument doesn't work. If you cannot compete, get out of the business, because you have no business running a MLB team if you don't know how to compete. Every small market team receives enough payroll tax revenues from the large market teams to level the playing field and sign/pay their players.


Yeah, I agree because that 10 million or so they get from the Spankees Yes network should allow them to compete with a 200 million payroll. I love it ..

20 Million in gate plus 10 million in concessions, another 10 million from the Media plus 10 million from the Yes network and they should be able to compete with a 200 million dollar team.. gotcha..

hmm, maybe that is a conspiracy too. Maybe George has bought off all of the West Palm Beach media and has convinced everybody there, not to go to Tampa Bay baseball games.

you ever think about that?
maybe its a conspiracy from the Yes network :-D
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Postby wrveres » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:25 pm

Ok this runs deeper ..

In my google search to find out more about this Tampa Bay Media conspiracy, I came across quite a few people in the area that think there is a media conspiracy against the Tampa Bay Bucs. Now I thought that was quite odd. I mean the media conspiring against the Bucs but yet for the Rays. Didnt the bucs win something here recently, but yet the media is out to get them ...
I am confused.. :-o
Maybe you can shed some light on this for me, you seem to have your finger on the Tampa Bay media pulse ..

Can this be true?
The Media hates the Bucs ..
Does not want Young to get paid ..
and is in love with the Devil Rays ..

please help 'cus I am extremely confused here.
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Postby brandnew » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:52 pm

Is he coming up or not? All I see in here is a bunch of bickering
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Postby scr » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:32 pm

wrveres wrote:
scr wrote:It is very clear to me that the Tampa media and the TBFO are working in concert to keep these kids down in the minors. Strategically planting numerous negative articles in the news about players the FO wants to keep down in the minors, while writing even more positive articles about the front office conspire to ratify this argument.


This is good stuff ..
so is that everybody in the Tampa media? .. I mean all of them. ;-7 Every sports reporter, or did the Tamba Bay front office just use American Shipbuildings funds to buy off just two or three reporters so that they could keep Young in the minors. I am curious as to just how big this conspiracy is.
How much money do you think they are paying the Tampa Bay reporters so that they don't have to pay Young.. again just curious.

scr wrote:BTW, the "small market" argument doesn't work. If you cannot compete, get out of the business, because you have no business running a MLB team if you don't know how to compete. Every small market team receives enough payroll tax revenues from the large market teams to level the playing field and sign/pay their players.


Yeah, I agree because that 10 million or so they get from the Spankees Yes network should allow them to compete with a 200 million payroll. I love it ..

20 Million in gate plus 10 million in concessions, another 10 million from the Media plus 10 million from the Yes network and they should be able to compete with a 200 million dollar team.. gotcha..

hmm, maybe that is a conspiracy too. Maybe George has bought off all of the West Palm Beach media and has convinced everybody there, not to go to Tampa Bay baseball games.

you ever think about that?
maybe its a conspiracy from the Yes network :-D






Talk about too much.....


I suggest you keep drinking the koolaid management keeps serving. Or maybe you are a reporter, defending the indefensible.

How many articles have you read about Young?

How many? Like how about literally hundreds.

And how many of those articles outright rip the crap out of the kid?

Like, just about every single one of them.

But I forgot-it's the good old boys, justifying their hatred laced articles masking as "reporting", or "commentary".


And of course, the inevitable comparison to the Yankees.

Let's see.....

George paid all of 10 million dollars for that team-at the time, it was considered a bargain.

Then George had the guts to pay Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, Catfish Hunter.

Attendance went through the roof.

George made a fortune.

George invested the fortune into his team. He made even more money.

George then took that money and invested it into a television network.

Now George makes hundreds of millions of dollars.

And that's bad?

Because George invested in his team. Over and over again.

It's not rocket science. Smartly investing your money makes money. George gave all of us the blueprint. We choose not to follow.

So don't blame George.

By the way, George would never pull this crap on his minor league stars.

He'd treat them with respect.

As for the media and what they have written about Young: Shame on them. They are to be distained for fostering hate and ill feelings.
Management's conduct regarding the media leaves me to believe they want the negativity so no one gets on them for not bringing these kids up to the majors.
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Postby winterball22 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:43 pm

It's naive to just blame the media, Young has some responsibility in this. If he behaved with a little maturity the last couple of years, the media would have less to write about. Throwing bats at umpires, throwing bats at opposing pitchers, bumping umpires. This guy is lucky to still have a job.
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Postby The Loveable Losers » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:50 pm

scr wrote:Talk about too much.....

I suggest you keep drinking the koolaid management keeps serving. Or maybe you are a reporter, defending the indefensible.


Wow...seriously man, everyone in the world that thinks Young may not be ready for the majors isn't necessarily a Tampa Bay reporter...some of them actually think he's not ready to be up.

scr wrote:How many articles have you read about Young?

How many? Like how about literally hundreds.

And how many of those articles outright rip the crap out of the kid?

Like, just about every single one of them.


That tends to happen when you have the spotty behavioral history of Delmon Young.

scr wrote:George paid all of 10 million dollars for that team-at the time, it was considered a bargain.
...
...
It's not rocket science. Smartly investing your money makes money. George gave all of us the blueprint. We choose not to follow.

So don't blame George.


I agree that the hatred for the evil empire is over the top. However not just anyone can do what George did...being in a market like New York makes that a lot more possible than a place like KC or Cincinnati. If you tried to use the Yankees formula in a smaller market you'd just end up hemorrhaging cash as you just don't have the population base from which to draw all of the new fans you'd need to make it work.

scr wrote:By the way, George would never pull this crap on his minor league stars.

He'd treat them with respect.


Heck no...George would just ask Cashman to trade them long before it got to this point. ;)

scr wrote:As for the media and what they have written about Young: Shame on them. They are to be distained for fostering hate and ill feelings.
Management's conduct regarding the media leaves me to believe they want the negativity so no one gets on them for not bringing these kids up to the majors.


To be honest I haven't read any of the articles and I agree the press can be vitriolic at times. Delmon Young has done very little to earn anyone's respect as a human being though...his play on the field has been stellar but media-bias or no Delmon has not behaved like an adult - let alone a major league baseball player.
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Postby noseeum » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:59 pm

wrveres wrote:Yeah, I agree because that 10 million or so they get from the Spankees Yes network should allow them to compete with a 200 million payroll. I love it ..

20 Million in gate plus 10 million in concessions, another 10 million from the Media plus 10 million from the Yes network and they should be able to compete with a 200 million dollar team.. gotcha..

hmm, maybe that is a conspiracy too. Maybe George has bought off all of the West Palm Beach media and has convinced everybody there, not to go to Tampa Bay baseball games.

you ever think about that?
maybe its a conspiracy from the Yes network :-D


Just for accuracy's sake, the Devil Rays received $33 million in revenue sharing money for 2005. Free money. The Yanks paid $75.9 million, plus more for luxury tax.

From 2003-2005, the Devil Rays received $158 million in revenue sharing and spent $148 million on payroll. You'd think they could spend a little more, huh?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball ... ring_x.htm
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Postby wrveres » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:06 pm

noseeum wrote:
wrveres wrote:Yeah, I agree because that 10 million or so they get from the Spankees Yes network should allow them to compete with a 200 million payroll. I love it ..

20 Million in gate plus 10 million in concessions, another 10 million from the Media plus 10 million from the Yes network and they should be able to compete with a 200 million dollar team.. gotcha..

hmm, maybe that is a conspiracy too. Maybe George has bought off all of the West Palm Beach media and has convinced everybody there, not to go to Tampa Bay baseball games.

you ever think about that?
maybe its a conspiracy from the Yes network :-D


Just for accuracy's sake, the Devil Rays received $33 million in revenue sharing money for 2005. Free money. The Yanks paid $75.9 million, plus more for luxury tax.

From 2003-2005, the Devil Rays received $158 million in revenue sharing and spent $148 million on payroll. You'd think they could spend a little more, huh?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball ... ring_x.htm


solid Post LL . Would it not be nice if we all had New Yorks market in which to sell tickets ;-7

As for the D Rays. No way I will defend their spending or lack there of, and I do not agree that they should be spending more money, just to spend more money. Why should they be forced to compete in market driven by the large markets teams? Just because New York has 24 players making in excess of 10 million dollars each, does not mean that everybody should have to. The market is dictated by New York. It always has been and it always will be. Teams just have to come up with more creative ways in which to compete, which is what makes the pork and beans man so popular. ;-)

As for a media bias on Young, I am really not surprised. See any of my Barry Bonds posts. But that in no way means there is some bias for the organizaation and against Young in this matter, and that they are planting stories .. sorry it just is not as "clear" as you would like to make it.
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