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Delmon might be called up today!

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Postby theclefe » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:47 am

Two points. As a player, would you rather have a talented, whiny brat on your team or an hard-working guy who is good to be around. If your team can't win, there is no benefit in bringing him up. More games won this season is pointless. Doing it to pacify him is a terrible excuse to make a bad business decision, and I don't think making the show will shut him up. Look at the problems TO is causing and has caused in Dallas/Phily/SF. I hope Delmon isn't that bad, but that's what I fear based on his short track record. I don't care how much talent you have, if your disrupting the clubhouse it is not worth it.

These guys may want to play MLB, but they want to get paid first and foremost. The D-Rays don't want the clock to start, their agents do. The D-Rays will have six years or so to get back on good terms with them, good terms meaning the highest bidder come free agent time, so I doubt a few extra months in the minors will sully that relationship.
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Postby scr » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:20 am

I've noticed two conflicting arguments made by posters that think management's tact is the right way to proceed with it's young players.

First, there are the folks that say that the "poor" Devil Rays can't afford to bring up a player like Young because of the time clock/service time issue....

Then there are the folks that say this is the "new" front office, and it is because of needed experience in the minors, not "service time", the players should be in the minors....

You can't have it both ways, folks. Get on board with one reason and stick to it. Otherwise, it really just looks like "stupidity on stilts".

We have also let slide the media involvement in keeping these kids down in the minors. Reading a columnist yesterday writing about the rays, there was a poll asking who is the minor league player whose arrival you are most anticipating. The choices included BJ (already up), Longoria, Guzman, and some other player. NO MENTION OF DELMON YOUNG. You can see what comes next. The media takes the results to management, and management uses the results as an additional reason to keep Young in the minors, saying something like "look, even our fans want to see Longoria, not Delmon".

It is very clear to me that the Tampa media and the TBFO are working in concert to keep these kids down in the minors. Strategically planting numerous negative articles in the news about players the FO wants to keep down in the minors, while writing even more positive articles about the front office conspire to ratify this argument.

Friedman may be setting the stage for a September callup for Longoria, and planting the seeds to justify keeping Young in the minors for the rest of the year.

BTW, the "small market" argument doesn't work. If you cannot compete, get out of the business, because you have no business running a MLB team if you don't know how to compete. Every small market team receives enough payroll tax revenues from the large market teams to level the playing field and sign/pay their players.

The FO is way wrong on this one, and continue to look foolish in the eyes of the fan base that won't get sucked in to the media spin.

I can't say I'm surprised, but I can say I've given the benefit of the doubt to management and now feel foolish for doing so. The "more deserving" comment just puts it over the top.
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Postby The Loveable Losers » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:21 am

scr wrote:First, there are the folks that say that the "poor" Devil Rays can't afford to bring up a player like Young because of the time clock/service time issue....

Then there are the folks that say this is the "new" front office, and it is because of needed experience in the minors, not "service time", the players should be in the minors....

You can't have it both ways, folks. Get on board with one reason and stick to it. Otherwise, it really just looks like "stupidity on stilts".


You are aware that two people looking at the same situation may see it in a different way. You'd have a point if the same person was making both of these arguments. That different people are making different arguments simply shows a difference in opinion.
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:34 am

BTW, the "small market" argument doesn't work. If you cannot compete, get out of the business, because you have no business running a MLB team if you don't know how to compete. Every small market team receives enough payroll tax revenues from the large market teams to level the playing field and sign/pay their players.



Firstly, some owners buy/run their teams as a business. I don't necessarily agree with this philosophy, but if I was making $20 million per year on an MLB team, I'm sure I wouldn't really care what the fans thought, nor would I sign guys that would make me lose money just so that the team could be "competitive".

Secondly, it's not a level playing field. Do you honestly believe that the Royals, Twins, etc. could afford to pay $100 million on their payroll, in addition to expenses like scouting, etc.....
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Postby Matthias » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:14 am

noseeum wrote:Yeah, you can make people a part of your decisions and have them buy into it, or you can be dictatorial and have them be pissed off, disgruntled employees who can't wait to see the exit.

It has nothing to do with being cheap. It has to do with keeping these guys happy and productive while they're with you.


Exactly. A little decency and respect is free.

You don't want to bring him up this year to start the free agency clock? Fine. But at least be decent to him. I'm not saying you have to coddle him as a prima donna but if in your workplace your boss kept promoting inferior people and then was cheeky about it, well, you'd be irritated, too.
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Postby winterball22 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:18 am

Maybe the Rays, are holding Young back until he shows that he can handle the majors mentally. The kid has talent, but in the last two years, he's thrown a bat at an ump, suspended 3 games for bumping an ump, thrown a bat at a pitcher...the kid has to grow up.
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Postby winterball22 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:18 am

Maybe the Rays, are holding Young back until he shows that he can handle the majors mentally. The kid has talent, but in the last two years, he's thrown a bat at an ump, suspended 3 games for bumping an ump, thrown a bat at a pitcher...the kid has to grow up.
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Postby scr » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:38 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:
BTW, the "small market" argument doesn't work. If you cannot compete, get out of the business, because you have no business running a MLB team if you don't know how to compete. Every small market team receives enough payroll tax revenues from the large market teams to level the playing field and sign/pay their players.



Firstly, some owners buy/run their teams as a business. I don't necessarily agree with this philosophy, but if I was making $20 million per year on an MLB team, I'm sure I wouldn't really care what the fans thought, nor would I sign guys that would make me lose money just so that the team could be "competitive".

Secondly, it's not a level playing field. Do you honestly believe that the Royals, Twins, etc. could afford to pay $100 million on their payroll, in addition to expenses like scouting, etc.....



The payroll tax revenue sharing system was implementing for the express purpose of creating large scale revenue for the smaller market teams to be used towards signing players. The small market owners have, by and large, decided to pocket the money instead of investing in their clubs. If those small market teams put the payroll tax revenue to work as designed by the intent of the tax itself, teams would be a heck of alot more competitive than they presently are.

Nobody is saying that the Rays FO should be playing their players 100 million dollars. In order to compete, you should be able to pay your players much less than 100mill (see Marlins). To screw with a person's career because you want to delay the person's ability to earn a living is really crazy in principle. Doesn't anyone listen to what they are saying????? For some reason it's OK to screw with a minor league ballplayer (those spoiled little brats), when none of us would ever put up with such a screwing at our own places of employment. Sounds alot like a double standard.
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Postby noseeum » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:46 pm

winterball22 wrote:Maybe the Rays, are holding Young back until he shows that he can handle the majors mentally. The kid has talent, but in the last two years, he's thrown a bat at an ump, suspended 3 games for bumping an ump, thrown a bat at a pitcher...the kid has to grow up.


You might be right, winterbal'22, but the point is not that the kid didn't deserve a delay. It's just from what all three have been saying, they seem to have felt completely in the dark about if/when they would be called up, what the team's plan for them was.

Then to hear that someone from the front office said there are "more deserving" players than him, that's not constructive. That's vindictive and embarrassing. You don't air that in public. You tell the kid privately why you're holding him back and what you expect him to do in order to get the call, so he can see the light at the end of the tunnel, focus on what he needs to do, and get it done.
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Postby The Loveable Losers » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:52 pm

scr wrote:
buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:
BTW, the "small market" argument doesn't work. If you cannot compete, get out of the business, because you have no business running a MLB team if you don't know how to compete. Every small market team receives enough payroll tax revenues from the large market teams to level the playing field and sign/pay their players.



Firstly, some owners buy/run their teams as a business. I don't necessarily agree with this philosophy, but if I was making $20 million per year on an MLB team, I'm sure I wouldn't really care what the fans thought, nor would I sign guys that would make me lose money just so that the team could be "competitive".

Secondly, it's not a level playing field. Do you honestly believe that the Royals, Twins, etc. could afford to pay $100 million on their payroll, in addition to expenses like scouting, etc.....



The payroll tax revenue sharing system was implementing for the express purpose of creating large scale revenue for the smaller market teams to be used towards signing players. The small market owners have, by and large, decided to pocket the money instead of investing in their clubs. If those small market teams put the payroll tax revenue to work as designed by the intent of the tax itself, teams would be a heck of alot more competitive than they presently are.

Nobody is saying that the Rays FO should be playing their players 100 million dollars. In order to compete, you should be able to pay your players much less than 100mill (see Marlins). To screw with a person's career because you want to delay the person's ability to earn a living is really crazy in principle. Doesn't anyone listen to what they are saying????? For some reason it's OK to screw with a minor league ballplayer (those spoiled little brats), when none of us would ever put up with such a screwing at our own places of employment. Sounds alot like a double standard.


Nobody in the business world ever gets held back from a promotion due to business issues (other people in the position, company needs them at the lower level job, office politics, etc) even though they deserve the promotion? Can I move to that world? ;)
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