HoF Debate: Ted Simmons - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

HoF Debate: Ted Simmons

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

HoF Debate: Ted Simmons

Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:36 am

2472 hits, 1389 RBI, 8 time All-Star
Career OPB .348, SLG .437, 118 OPS+

Did I mention he was a catcher?
Just to get a baseline here are some other HOF catcher's OPS+
Bench - 126
Berra - 125
Campanella - 124
Fisk - 117
Carter - 115

Gray Ink: Batting - 95 (231) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 44.5 (106) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 124.5 (107) (Likely HOFer > 100)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/simmote01.shtml
Image
Pogotheostrich
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21614
(Past Year: 380)
Joined: 9 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

Postby j_d_mcnugent » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:56 am

in. ranks pretty high amongst the catchers.

i'm just going to post an article to save myself some time.



Ted Simmon's Hall of Famer?

Simmons displayed a unique combination of power and average that was vacant from the catching position until Mike Piazza and Ivan Rodriguez arrived. Perhaps his greatest talent was creating a way to reach first. Simmons' on-base percentage (.349) ranks him above Carter (.333), Carlton Fisk (.334), Rodriguez (.341), Johnny Bench (.344) and Yogi Berra (.348). In fact, among all catchers who started their careers after 1945, only Roy Campanella (.360) and Mike Piazza (.392) have a higher on-base percentage.

The high on-base percentage is obviously due to his ability to hit for average. Simmons topped .300 seven times, finishing second in the batting race with a .332 clip in 1975. He was also the model of consistency with his average dropping below .280 only once in the years spanning 1971 to 1980. In contrast, Bench and Carter never logged one .300 season. Fisk only had one full season above .300, batting .315-a mark Simmons passed twice. Berra topped .300 on three separate occasions. However, Berra's best average (.322) was only good enough for a ninth place finish in the offensive-laden 1950 batting race. Ted Simmons finished the top ten in league average in six distinct seasons during the pitching-rich seventies and eighties. In addition, Simmons' career batting average (285) places him higher than Carter (.262), Bench (.267), or Fisk (.269).

In addition to reaching base, a true hall of famer must excel at driving in runs. This was another area where Simmons topped his peers. Currently, Simmons ranks 56th on the all-time RBI list, knocking in 1389 runs. Fisk is only 71st on the list with 1330 runs batted in. Gary Cater didn't even rank in the top 100 in career RBIs. This statistic is more impressive when you consider that Fisk played more games than Simmons. In terms of individual seasons, Simmons knocked in 100 runs on three separate occasions. Cater accomplished this 4 times, and Fisk only did it twice. Although critics charge that Simmons' power numbers are low, driving in runs and reaching base are the keys to winning ball games. No one can argue Simmons' ability in either category.

The biggest knock on Simmons is that he was a flawed defensive player and spent the majority of his career has a Designated Hitter. Both these statements are simply not true. Simmons bested National League catchers in putouts in 1972 and 1973. He also topped NL catchers in assists during the 1972 and 1978 campaigns. In 1982, he helped by the Brewers win the American Championship by leading AL catchers in fielding percentage. Simmons' durability behind the plate is also not open for debate. In three separate seasons, he led the National League in games caught. He also caught more 75% of his team's games for 8 seasons and caught more than 100 games in 14 of his 16 full seasons. Furthermore, in 1975 Simmons caught 94.8% of the Cardinals' games, placing him sixth on the list of highest percentage of games caught in one season. Currently, Simmons is 9th all time in games caught and spent more time behind the plate than both Bench and Berra.

Baseball writers often use the word "intangibles" to justify voting for a player who maybe a borderline candidate. No one can question the intangibles Simmons brought to the game. His ability to call a game helped earn an ERA title for John Denny, Cy Young awards for Pete Vukovich and Rollie Fingers, and Fingers' 1981 MVP honor. Simmons' arrival in Milwaukee helped an underachieving Brewer team advance to the post-season. Although Simmons' post-season numbers are not spectacular, he hit a critical home run to knock Tommy John out of Game 3 of the 1981 American League Division Series and clubbed two homers against the Cardinals in the 1982 World Series.

In a colossal display of ignorance, the baseball writers failed to give Simmons enough to votes to stay on the ballot. It now falls upon the Veterans Committee to correct this error. Simmons ranks in the top 5 among catchers in 15 categories and in the top 10 in 17 categories. He excelled in reaching base, driving in runs, getting extra base hits, and motivating his teammates to succeed--all while meeting the challenges of switch hitting and playing the most physically demanding position in baseball. All those facts add up to one simple statement: Ted Simmons deserves a plaque in Cooperstown.


http://www.thestlcardinals.com/TedSimmonsHOFER.html
j_d_mcnugent
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe Ranker
Posts: 3766
Joined: 1 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: bored at work

Postby Havok1517 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:04 am

is he even on the ballot anymore? I'd say in, but I'll be honest. I don't know a lot about the guy and that may contribute to him not currently being in.
Havok1517
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe Writer
Posts: 8511
(Past Year: 116)
Joined: 8 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:44 pm

Havok1517 wrote:is he even on the ballot anymore? I'd say in, but I'll be honest. I don't know a lot about the guy and that may contribute to him not currently being in.


You have that kind of power? 8-o
Image
bigh0rt
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 24816
(Past Year: 359)
Joined: 3 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Crowding The Plate

Postby Havok1517 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:47 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:is he even on the ballot anymore? I'd say in, but I'll be honest. I don't know a lot about the guy and that may contribute to him not currently being in.


You have that kind of power? 8-o


haha, I wish. I just meant that he doesn't get much/any press and support which may contribute to him not getting his due.
Havok1517
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe Writer
Posts: 8511
(Past Year: 116)
Joined: 8 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby 405z06 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:59 pm

Growing up in St Louis in the late 70's, #23 was every kids favorite player, including me. I believe, however, that Simmons belongs in the Hall of the Very Good, not the MLB HOF.
405z06
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 126
Joined: 23 May 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St Louis, MO

Postby Havok1517 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:03 pm

405z06 wrote:Growing up in St Louis in the late 70's, #23 was every kids favorite player, including me. I believe, however, that Simmons belongs in the Hall of the Very Good, not the MLB HOF.


As do many in the Hall (Carter, Rizzuto, Maz to name a few). But his numbers do translate well with guys such as Carter & Fisk.
Havok1517
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe Writer
Posts: 8511
(Past Year: 116)
Joined: 8 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby noseeum » Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:28 pm

405z06 wrote:Growing up in St Louis in the late 70's, #23 was every kids favorite player, including me. I believe, however, that Simmons belongs in the Hall of the Very Good, not the MLB HOF.


The guy was a catcher playing in an era of very low offense. Cut him some slack. Anyone who's top ten ever at his position should be in the Hall. Book' em, Dano.
noseeum
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1697
Joined: 1 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Dr. Duran Duran » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:25 pm

noseeum wrote:
405z06 wrote:Growing up in St Louis in the late 70's, #23 was every kids favorite player, including me. I believe, however, that Simmons belongs in the Hall of the Very Good, not the MLB HOF.


The guy was a catcher playing in an era of very low offense. Cut him some slack. Anyone who's top ten ever at his position should be in the Hall.


Hard to argue with the numbers he put up, even if his name isn't as familiar as Bench, Fisk or Rizutto. I agree, if you're in the top ten ever at your position, I'd have a hard time arguing that he shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame.
Image
Dr. Duran Duran
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
CafecasterTrivia Time Trial Champion
Posts: 1785
Joined: 20 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Here, there and everywhere

Postby joshheines » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:12 pm

Havok1517 wrote:
405z06 wrote:Growing up in St Louis in the late 70's, #23 was every kids favorite player, including me. I believe, however, that Simmons belongs in the Hall of the Very Good, not the MLB HOF.


As do many in the Hall (Carter, Rizzuto, Maz to name a few). But his numbers do translate well with guys such as Carter & Fisk.


Carter is so much better than Simmons that it barely requires an argument, but I'm a Mets fan and I hold onto and defend 1986. With a stick, I'll give you the two guys are very comparable. However, over his career Simmons played borderline average defense. Carter, on the other hand, should be regarded as one of the top defensive catchers of all-time. During his peak defensive years (1978 - 1983) Carter saved his team 20 runs over the average catcher for his defense alone. Carter was as good as Pudge is today (or was in his on hey-day). Carter produced about 9.35 wins over a replacement level player for 10 years. Simmons peak of 9.2 wins contributed above a replacement player doesn't even match Carter's 10 year average. This is not to say Simmons isn't really good, but at best he's a very questionable HOFer. While in my mind Carter is among the elite catchers.
It's easy, fun, and 100% safe!
joshheines
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 535
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Next

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: buiviopaufamp and 12 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Monday, Sep. 1
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Philadelphia at Atlanta
(1:10 pm)
NY Mets at Miami
(1:10 pm)
indoors
Boston at Tampa Bay
(1:10 pm)
indoors
Minnesota at Baltimore
(1:35 pm)
Pittsburgh at St. Louis
(2:15 pm)
Milwaukee at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
Seattle at Oakland
(4:05 pm)
Detroit at Cleveland
(4:05 pm)
San Francisco at Colorado
(4:10 pm)
Arizona at San Diego
(4:10 pm)
Texas at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Washington at LA Dodgers
(8:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact