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Man Ram for MVP?

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Postby BronXBombers51 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:26 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Wrong.

Ortiz has only created 2 more runs this year than Jeter. However, Jeter has had about 20 less plate appearances. Jeter creates more runs per game than Ortiz...8.9 runs for Jeter....8.3 runs for Ortiz. Jeter is tied for the league lead in win shares, with Mauer and Manny, at 22. Ortiz has 19. He's also tied for win shares above bench player (WSAB) with Mauer, Manny and Thome, at 14. Jeter also ranks 6th in the MLB in VORP, at 55.9. Ortiz ranks 9th in the MLB, at 52.8. Ortiz has Jeter in OPS by a significant margin.

Now, read all of that and take into consideration that Jeter is a shortstop. Putting up comparable numbers to slugging 1st basemen and outfielders as a #2 hitting shortstop is remarkable.

I'm not saying he's the MVP, but he's neck and neck with Ortiz, and is having a much better season than you're giving him credit for.


Out of curiousity, where did those numbers come from? Looking at ESPN's sabermetric stats, Jeter has created 15 less runs than Ortiz, and his RC/27 is 0.7 less than Papi's. I'm not arguing with you, just curious.


I get my numbers from the Hardball Times. The VORP numbers came from BaseballProspectus.com.

I'm not sure about the ESPN numbers. I'm on my way out the door right now, but I plan to look at the numbers later on and see what's up. ;-D
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Postby drewaely » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:27 pm

Why are we considering Ortiz a first baseman??? He has only played a limited role. I think that Ortiz will probably win but right now I would rather have Morneau. While he hasn't hit as many homeruns or RBI's, he's at least close. He ranks top 5 in the AL in homers. Second in the AL in RBIs. He certainly has the highest average (of those mentioned) and he has MORE game winning RBIs than Ortiz.... Morneau has 17, Ortiz has 15....

morneau won't win because the Twins are in a small market but he is certainly more deserving than Hafner, Thome, Ramirez and Jeter.


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Postby acsguitar » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:37 pm

I don't think you can really vote for a DH when their are fielders producing the same HR's and RBI's and also fielders producing equal crazy abermatic numbers which I have no clue what they mean.
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Postby ARCH » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:06 pm

This is laughable. You guys think the MVP is awared to the best RC27. The reality is the award is given to the player with the most HR's and RBI's. RC27 is just one of several measures of the production value of a player and it is one that most voters wouldn't even take into consideration.
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Postby raiders_umpire » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:15 pm

ARCH wrote:This is laughable. You guys think the MVP is awared to the best RC27. The reality is the award is given to the player with the most HR's and RBI's. RC27 is just one of several measures of the production value of a player and it is one that most voters wouldn't even take into consideration.




What in the heck happened in the National League last year then?


Andruw 51 HR 128 RBIs
Pujols 41 HR 117 RBIs


That must have been a travesty then? ;-7
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Postby ARCH » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:25 pm

Thanks, Andruw Jones is a perfect example to back my argument up. The fact Jones was even talked about as an MVP was simply because of his HR and RBI production. His average was almost 70 points worse than Pujols. Jones was very close to taking out the NL MVP title even with such a pathetic average of .263 due to his great HR and RBI totals.

If Ortiz keeps going at his current pace and that appears likely barring injury, then he is an absolute certainty of being awarded the AL MVP in 2006.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:10 pm

ARCH wrote:Thanks, Andruw Jones is a perfect example to back my argument up. The fact Jones was even talked about as an MVP was simply because of his HR and RBI production. His average was almost 70 points worse than Pujols. Jones was very close to taking out the NL MVP title even with such a pathetic average of .263 due to his great HR and RBI totals.

If Ortiz keeps going at his current pace and that appears likely barring injury, then he is an absolute certainty of being awarded the AL MVP in 2006.


Obviously.

I know Ortiz is getting the award. I know the moronic sportswriters look at HRs and RBIs, and other misleading and mostly unimportant stats. The fact is, Ortiz doesn't deserve the MVP, and that is my point. I know he'll get it....but that doesn't make it right.
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Postby The Miner Part 2 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:21 pm

time for morneau to start getting some love..
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Postby ARCH » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:24 pm

I don't think HR's and / or RBI's are misleading stats, they are just as important as RC27 or any other production value stat but they do influence the writers more than any of the others. That's always been the case and probably always will be. For you to say Ortiz doesn't deserve to win the AL MVP as his RC27 is not as high as several others to me is just as shortsighted as the writers who look at just HR's and RBI's.
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Postby The Miner Part 2 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:28 pm

ARCH wrote:I don't think HR's and / or RBI's are misleading stats, they are just as important as RC27 or any other production value stat but they do influence the writers more than any of the others. That's always been the case and probably always will be. For you to say Ortiz doesn't deserve to win the AL MVP as his RC27 is not as high as several others to me is just as shortsighted as the writers who look at just HR's and RBI's.


the only reason papi doesnt deserve mvp is because he is half a player.
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