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Man Ram for MVP?

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Postby BronXBombers51 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:18 pm

IllinoisBandit wrote:I think Ortiz and Manny will cancel each other out. Knowing the writers in this country, Jeter will probably win an undeserved MVP.


If Jeter wins and it's undeserved, then the same goes for Ortiz. They are both in the same boat. Comparable numbers, and both have the same people ahead of them as far as production goes (Hafner, Manny).
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Postby ARCH » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:35 pm

:-? How is Ortiz behind Hafner or Manny in production this season?
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Postby Prooks25 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:37 pm

The bottom line is...Ortiz is as good as he is, because Manny is batting behind him. Manny does not have the same protection behind him as Ortiz has.

That's why Manny deserves MVP honors over Ortiz. You can make the case that Manny makes Ortiz so good.
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Postby Havok1517 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:40 pm

Thome is right there as well.
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Postby DevilDriver » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:54 pm

acsguitar wrote:
IllinoisBandit wrote:I think Ortiz and Manny will cancel each other out. Knowing the writers in this country, Jeter will probably win an undeserved MVP.

Manny IS a slightly better hitter than Ortiz, but not nearly as likeable.


Yea you are right....

Batting .350 with 9 + Hr's 68 Rbi's 78 runs and 25 stolent bases is worthless plus I hear he's the worst shortstop ever to play baseball ever.

Jeter's .350 AVG is his only MVP-worthy stat and it's not even tops in the AL. Ortiz leads MLB in both HR and RBI plus how many walkoff hits does he have? I'm not saying Jeter isn't worthy of winning MVP, because he is for carrying the Yanks through all the injuries and keeping them in the race, but Ortiz is more deserving as of right now.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:03 pm

ARCH wrote::-? How is Ortiz behind Hafner or Manny in production this season?


Code: Select all
RK PLAYER  RC27
1 Jim Thome  9.82
2 Manny Ramirez  9.68
3 Travis Hafner  9.29
4 Joe Mauer  8.81
5 David Ortiz  8.63
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Postby Strasil42 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:44 pm

Chicago RedSox wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
davidmarver wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:Sorry, Manny has actually been pretty decent in the field this year overall.

Actually, according the metrics, Manny has been worse in the field thus far this season than in any of his other major league seasons.


Last I checked, he's only made 1 error so far this year. I know range and other things can come into question but .994 fielding % ain't bad.


AND Manny led the league in OF assists last year. And he's in the top 10 for left fielders this year.


Outfield assists are a joke.

I remember last year when Manny dove for a ball, and missed it by about 5 feet. He ended up kicking the ball to the wall, and it took a lucky bounce right back to him.

He threw the guy out at 3rd.

Some assist.

;-7
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Postby blankman » Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:55 pm

Chicago RedSox wrote:Didn't Ortiz make a diving catch at first during interleague?


Didn't Ortiz make an error at first a week or so ago that led to 4 unearned runs? They lost that game by 3 or 4.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:02 pm

DevilDriver wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
IllinoisBandit wrote:I think Ortiz and Manny will cancel each other out. Knowing the writers in this country, Jeter will probably win an undeserved MVP.

Manny IS a slightly better hitter than Ortiz, but not nearly as likeable.


Yea you are right....

Batting .350 with 9 + Hr's 68 Rbi's 78 runs and 25 stolent bases is worthless plus I hear he's the worst shortstop ever to play baseball ever.

Jeter's .350 AVG is his only MVP-worthy stat and it's not even tops in the AL. Ortiz leads MLB in both HR and RBI plus how many walkoff hits does he have? I'm not saying Jeter isn't worthy of winning MVP, because he is for carrying the Yanks through all the injuries and keeping them in the race, but Ortiz is more deserving as of right now.


Wrong.

Ortiz has only created 2 more runs this year than Jeter. However, Jeter has had about 20 less plate appearances. Jeter creates more runs per game than Ortiz...8.9 runs for Jeter....8.3 runs for Ortiz. Jeter is tied for the league lead in win shares, with Mauer and Manny, at 22. Ortiz has 19. He's also tied for win shares above bench player (WSAB) with Mauer, Manny and Thome, at 14. Jeter also ranks 6th in the MLB in VORP, at 55.9. Ortiz ranks 9th in the MLB, at 52.8. Ortiz has Jeter in OPS by a significant margin.

Now, read all of that and take into consideration that Jeter is a shortstop. Putting up comparable numbers to slugging 1st basemen and outfielders as a #2 hitting shortstop is remarkable.

I'm not saying he's the MVP, but he's neck and neck with Ortiz, and is having a much better season than you're giving him credit for.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:23 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:Wrong.

Ortiz has only created 2 more runs this year than Jeter. However, Jeter has had about 20 less plate appearances. Jeter creates more runs per game than Ortiz...8.9 runs for Jeter....8.3 runs for Ortiz. Jeter is tied for the league lead in win shares, with Mauer and Manny, at 22. Ortiz has 19. He's also tied for win shares above bench player (WSAB) with Mauer, Manny and Thome, at 14. Jeter also ranks 6th in the MLB in VORP, at 55.9. Ortiz ranks 9th in the MLB, at 52.8. Ortiz has Jeter in OPS by a significant margin.

Now, read all of that and take into consideration that Jeter is a shortstop. Putting up comparable numbers to slugging 1st basemen and outfielders as a #2 hitting shortstop is remarkable.

I'm not saying he's the MVP, but he's neck and neck with Ortiz, and is having a much better season than you're giving him credit for.


Out of curiousity, where did those numbers come from? Looking at ESPN's sabermetric stats, Jeter has created 15 less runs than Ortiz, and his RC/27 is 0.7 less than Papi's. I'm not arguing with you, just curious.
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