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Man Ram for MVP?

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Postby PyRo8 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:51 am

i wonder if wat they'll take into account more? ortiz playin DH or manny playin a crummy left field lol
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Postby Havok1517 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:09 am

Sorry, Manny has actually been pretty decent in the field this year overall.
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Postby davidmarver » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:00 am

Havok1517 wrote:Sorry, Manny has actually been pretty decent in the field this year overall.

Actually, according the metrics, Manny has been worse in the field thus far this season than in any of his other major league seasons.
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Postby noseeum » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:14 am

Manny is a more feared hitter than Ortiz. It's clear. If he wasn't, then Ortiz would be walked in the situations where he's delivered.

Writers don't take those subleties of the game into account and criticize teams for pitching to Ortiz, but would you want to pitch to a pissed off Manny Ramirez?

"You're going to walk Ortiz to pitch to ME?!?! Oh no you ain't!"

He's a stud. He won't get MVP over Ortiz, though, unless he continues his recent tear and Ortiz slumps.
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Postby ARCH » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:19 am

The thing is teams HAVE intentionally walked Ortiz to pitch to Manny this season and in almost all cases Manny has NOT delivered. I'm not saying Manny is not clutch but most teams would obviously far rather pitch to him than Ortiz late in games.
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Postby ukrneal » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:36 am

ARCH wrote:The thing is teams HAVE intentionally walked Ortiz to pitch to Manny this season and in almost all cases Manny has NOT delivered. I'm not saying Manny is not clutch but most teams would obviously far rather pitch to him than Ortiz late in games.


I'm skeptical. You are probably remembering the times he failed and not the times he succeeded. Any stats that bear this out? He's hitting .311 with runners on, which is only slightly below his full season average.

As to MVP, I think they cancel themselves out. I can't see either winning unless one of them really leaps forward over the other by the end of the year.

On the other hand, no one else stands out right now, so the next month or so will decide it.
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Postby IllinoisBandit » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:43 am

davidmarver wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:Sorry, Manny has actually been pretty decent in the field this year overall.

Actually, according the metrics, Manny has been worse in the field thus far this season than in any of his other major league seasons.


Do people actually believe in this method of quantifying defense? Watch him! He typically makes very good ACCURATE throws and really plays the monster well. I'm not saying he's a gold glove cantidate or anything, and he has his bonehead moments, but he's nowhere near the hindrance people make him out to be.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:10 am

He is the MVP of the Red Sox right now, even moreso than Ortiz. At this point in the season, Hafner is the best hitter in the AL, but Manny is right behind him, and would get my vote for MVP if in fact I were to pick a player from a 'contending team' (since Hafner's team is poor).
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Postby The Jury » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:00 am

dipset wrote:How bout the redsox stick papi behind manny in the order than we will see who puts up MVP numbers. :-?


Agreed here - whoever bats third puts up the MVP numbers for the Sox.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:08 am

The Jury wrote:
dipset wrote:How bout the redsox stick papi behind manny in the order than we will see who puts up MVP numbers. :-?


Agreed here - whoever bats third puts up the MVP numbers for the Sox.

They discussed this on the radio the other day. That wasn't the case. Manny was hitting .270 in the 3 hole in front of Ortiz. The said some other stats that showed both of them did worse than they have in the current order. Also, Manny was given a chance to hit 3rd in front of Ortiz and he was not hitting very well at all, so Francona switched them.

And it seems as though every time they walk Ortiz to get to Manny, Manny doesn't come through.
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