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Is Joe Nathan the best closer in baseball?

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Postby Havok1517 » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:07 am

Strasil42 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:I really don't think its possible for a closer to be a "big game pitcher" since they usually only get 3 outs. For the definition of "big game pitcher" please see Curt Schilling & Andy Pettitte. ;-D


Rivera has gotten a ton of saves where he pitched for more than 3 outs.

Please see his career numbers. ;-D

Andy Pettitte has an ERA over 4 in the playoffs and is 3-4 in the world series.

I would consider John Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera, and Curt Schilling all big game pitchers.


Well, unless he's pitching 5-7 innings he's not a "big game pitcher". The word "usually" is not all-encompassing. So, I did take in account the times Rivera did pitch for more than 3 outs, which occured far less than simply closing the final 9th inning. Also, I do agree with your additions except Rivera (I already mentioned Schilling).

(Source: Wikipedia) When Pettitte started game two of the 2005 World Series, he was tied for second for most World Series starts. Along with Christy Mathewson and Waite Hoyt, Pettitte has started in 11 of the Fall Classics. Whitey Ford is in front with 22 starts. Pettitte has played in seven different World Series (six with the Yankees and one with the Astros) and been on the winning end of 18 postseason series - both of which are tops among active players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Pettitte

Obviously, Pettitte kept the Yankees in games and was a key element to them winning those recent championships. When Joe Torre and Reggie Jackson were both asked if they could choose 1 pitcher to win 1 game, their answer was...Andy Pettitte. ;-D
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Postby superfly » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:41 am

You guys must surely be forgetting Ambiorix Burgos.
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Postby Raf » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:42 am

Wow, enough of these dumb joke posts, im sick of it. Burgos? gimmy a break man.

Now, in all seriousness, the best closer in the league is by far Fausto Carmona.
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Postby Mashug » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:37 am

Let's start again. For Fantasy Baseball, I'd pick Nathan. I have Nathan, K-Rod and Rivera and Nathan's overall numbers are the best. If I had to pick 1 of them, this year, on my team for the course of the season and in to the playoffs it's Rivera.
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Postby rainman23 » Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:56 am

Havok1517 wrote:
Strasil42 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:I really don't think its possible for a closer to be a "big game pitcher" since they usually only get 3 outs. For the definition of "big game pitcher" please see Curt Schilling & Andy Pettitte. ;-D


Rivera has gotten a ton of saves where he pitched for more than 3 outs.

Please see his career numbers. ;-D

Andy Pettitte has an ERA over 4 in the playoffs and is 3-4 in the world series.

I would consider John Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera, and Curt Schilling all big game pitchers.


Well, unless he's pitching 5-7 innings he's not a "big game pitcher". The word "usually" is not all-encompassing. So, I did take in account the times Rivera did pitch for more than 3 outs, which occured far less than simply closing the final 9th inning. Also, I do agree with your additions except Rivera (I already mentioned Schilling).

(Source: Wikipedia) When Pettitte started game two of the 2005 World Series, he was tied for second for most World Series starts. Along with Christy Mathewson and Waite Hoyt, Pettitte has started in 11 of the Fall Classics. Whitey Ford is in front with 22 starts. Pettitte has played in seven different World Series (six with the Yankees and one with the Astros) and been on the winning end of 18 postseason series - both of which are tops among active players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Pettitte

Obviously, Pettitte kept the Yankees in games and was a key element to them winning those recent championships. When Joe Torre and Reggie Jackson were both asked if they could choose 1 pitcher to win 1 game, their answer was...Andy Pettitte. ;-D


I'm a big Yankee and Pettitte fan, but I have to respectfully disagree. Pettitte has been an "every other game" kind of guy in his post-season career -- one great game, one mediocre game. He's overrated as a clutch performer, just because he and the Yanks went to the playoffs so many times. I've heard Smoltz / Pettitte picked as One-Two in lots of post-season pitching analyses. But, really, Pettitte's record pales beside Smoltz's.

Just an fyi -- check out Dave Stewart's post-season stats from the early 90's. That guy defined post-season ace.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:58 am

If you were starting a team, who would be your first choice at this position"


If I was starting a team, closer wouldn't be on the top of my list but, if it was, you could do much worse than Nathan.
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