UncleIvan wrote:You will need a big game pitcher like Mo Rivera.
Big game as in blowing game seven of a world series or big game like blowing game four of the alcs, leading to the biggest collapse in baseball playoff history? I can't decide either.
Give me Nathan and Papelbon.
Nobody's flawless, Einstein. Obviously you have the right to hate the Yankees and wish for Rivera to be mediocre but get real. The infamous "blown save" in game 7 was a series of bouncers, bloopers and errors and I think 1 hard hit ball, which you would have seen if you actually watched the game objectively. Let's assume it was a legitimate blown save and he got hit hard. His numbers still speak loudly as to what kind of pitcher and competitor he is. Name someone better.
Critisizing him for not beiing 100% is like saying Ted Williams sucked because he made out more than 65% of his carrer. You do know who Ted Williams was, don't you?
With K Rod though... being a reliever changes the injury risk vs. a starter with high torque mechanics. There's a huge difference between throwing 100 + pitches per appearance and 200 innings a year vs. a guy who throws 15 or so pitches and far fewer innings.
Technically, every player, pircher or fielder, is slightly damaging his arm with every throw they make because the human body isn't designed to throw overhand, which is why you will occassionally see position players who have Tommy John surgery, and even high school pitchers have had Tommy John surgery.
Which sort of proves a point, some players have more of a rubber arm than others. And K-Rod may have a rubber arm, but there's no real way of knowing or not till either his arm explodes or his career is done. Odds are. based on his mechanics his shouder or elbow will give out earlyn his career, but there's no way of knowing for sure until it happens.
Also, though every pitch strains the ligaments, they do more so for pitchers when they grow fatigued, and they try to over compensated by throwing even harder, that's when the damage factor really increases, but with K-Rod, he's never throwing a lot of pitches in any appearance so he's not going past that fatigue point often it at all.
That's precisely why the term "big game pitcher" makes no sense and why the topic of this thread should have the response of Nathan, Papelbon, etc. and not Rivera.
Obviously you have the right to hate the Yankees and wish for Rivera to be mediocre but get real.
I actually just said in my last post that he was 'good'. He's been one of the better closers of all-time.
The infamous "blown save" in game 7 was a series of bouncers, bloopers and errors and I think 1 hard hit ball, which you would have seen if you actually watched the game objectively.
Seeing as I am not a Yankee or Diamondback fan -- dislike both -- and you are a Yankee fan, I think I probably watched the game more objectively than you.
Let's assume it was a legitimate blown save and he got hit hard.
So hitting a batter, giving up three hits, and committing an error on your throw all in 1/3rd of an inning isn't a legitimate blown save? Right.
His numbers still speak loudly as to what kind of pitcher and competitor he is. Name someone better.
Don't really want to get this argument started again, but my answer to the thread topic is Nathan and Papelbon.
Critisizing him for not beiing 100% is like saying Ted Williams sucked because he made out more than 65% of his carrer. You do know who Ted Williams was, don't you?
Seeing as there's the Ted Williams baseball field, the Ted Williams Freeway, and the Ted Williams Parkway all within 20 minutes of my house, and that he was once a member of the Santa Barbara baseball team -- near where I go to school -- and of the San Diego Padres, the answer to that is a resounding yes. And no, that's not like criticizing him for not being 100%...I'm simply pointing out that Mariano is not a postseason God...his shortcomings offset his postseasons of dominance.
That's precisely why the term "big game pitcher" makes no sense and why the topic of this thread should have the response of Nathan, Papelbon, etc. and not Rivera.
Obviously you have the right to hate the Yankees and wish for Rivera to be mediocre but get real.
I actually just said in my last post that he was 'good'. He's been one of the better closers of all-time.
The infamous "blown save" in game 7 was a series of bouncers, bloopers and errors and I think 1 hard hit ball, which you would have seen if you actually watched the game objectively.
Seeing as I am not a Yankee or Diamondback fan -- dislike both -- and you are a Yankee fan, I think I probably watched the game more objectively than you.
Let's assume it was a legitimate blown save and he got hit hard.
So hitting a batter, giving up three hits, and committing an error on your throw all in 1/3rd of an inning isn't a legitimate blown save? Right.
His numbers still speak loudly as to what kind of pitcher and competitor he is. Name someone better.
Don't really want to get this argument started again, but my answer to the thread topic is Nathan and Papelbon.
Critisizing him for not beiing 100% is like saying Ted Williams sucked because he made out more than 65% of his carrer. You do know who Ted Williams was, don't you?
Seeing as there's the Ted Williams baseball field, the Ted Williams Freeway, and the Ted Williams Parkway all within 20 minutes of my house, and that he was once a member of the Santa Barbara baseball team -- near where I go to school -- and of the San Diego Padres, the answer to that is a resounding yes. And no, that's not like criticizing him for not being 100%...I'm simply pointing out that Mariano is not a postseason God...his shortcomings offset his postseasons of dominance.
That's precisely why the term "big game pitcher" makes no sense and why the topic of this thread should have the response of Nathan, Papelbon, etc. and not Rivera. [.
Nathan has a 0-2 postseason record with a 8.44 era.
And of course no one is going to be perfect in the postseason forever, no one ever has, and no one ever will.
He has a .71 postseason whip, and is something like 34 out of 37 save opportunies in the playoffs.
I really don't think its possible for a closer to be a "big game pitcher" since they usually only get 3 outs. For the definition of "big game pitcher" please see Curt Schilling & Andy Pettitte.
That's precisely why the term "big game pitcher" makes no sense and why the topic of this thread should have the response of Nathan, Papelbon, etc. and not Rivera. [.
Nathan has a 0-2 postseason record with a 8.44 era.
And of course no one is going to be perfect in the postseason forever, no one ever has, and no one ever will.
He has a .71 postseason whip, and is something like 34 out of 37 save opportunies in the playoffs.
Don't waste your time. The numbers lie. Everyone knows Rivera's really a choker. Evil Yankee fans like us are biased.
Havok1517 wrote:I really don't think its possible for a closer to be a "big game pitcher" since they usually only get 3 outs. For the definition of "big game pitcher" please see Curt Schilling & Andy Pettitte.
Rivera has gotten a ton of saves where he pitched for more than 3 outs.
Please see his career numbers.
Andy Pettitte has an ERA over 4 in the playoffs and is 3-4 in the world series.
I would consider John Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera, and Curt Schilling all big game pitchers.
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by Mashug » Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:52 pm 
