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Is Joe Nathan the best closer in baseball?

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Postby Fade2White12 » Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:13 pm

Personally I'd rank it:
Rivera
Ryan
Nathan


Also, I'm surprised not one of you guys even mentioned Huston Street at all. Obviously he's not the best in baseball, but being 23, he's younger than both Papelbon and K-Rod (and obviously Rivera, Ryan, and Nathan). Remember, he was last year's Papelbon (but obviously not to this extent).
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Postby Mashug » Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:25 pm

Fade2White12 wrote:Personally I'd rank it:
Rivera
Ryan
Nathan


Also, I'm surprised not one of you guys even mentioned Huston Street at all. Obviously he's not the best in baseball, but being 23, he's younger than both Papelbon and K-Rod (and obviously Rivera, Ryan, and Nathan). Remember, he was last year's Papelbon (but obviously not to this extent).


Wow, you're right. I forgot about him!
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Postby RASportsnut » Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:00 pm

I have both Nathan and Putz on my FB team, and am delighted with both. Early on this season they weren't getting many opportunities for saves, but in the past 60 days, their numbers have been great.

I believe Nathan is the top closer for 5X5 fantasy.
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Postby UncleIvan » Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:09 pm

Is this even arguable? I'm assuming your assembled dream team will go deep into the playoffs. You will need a big game pitcher like Mo Rivera.
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Postby bleach168 » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:31 pm

Strasil42 wrote:
bleach168 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:Another name that I think should be thrown in the mix is Putz. He's only 29, and even though this is his first year of closing, 72 K's in 55 IP is pretty damn good, along with only 9 walks.


For some reason I think Putz and Otsuka are going to get hit really hard next year. Neither 1 has dominating stuff but get the job done. I think guys will start to figure them out.


Agree with Otsuka, disagree with Putz. I think Putz does have dominating stuff.

Back on topic, I would take Papelbon. I love that he isn't strictly a 3-out closer. He is like his own setup man.


But Rivera isnt????

Papelbon has pitched 2.0+ innings 5 times this year.

Rivera has pitched 2.0+ innings 6 times this year, including a 3 inning outing.


I wouldn't want to start my team with a 38-year old closer.
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Postby davidmarver » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:42 pm

UncleIvan wrote:You will need a big game pitcher like Mo Rivera.

Big game as in blowing game seven of a world series or big game like blowing game four of the alcs, leading to the biggest collapse in baseball playoff history? I can't decide either.

Give me Nathan and Papelbon.
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Postby Strasil42 » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:43 pm

bleach168 wrote:
Strasil42 wrote:
bleach168 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:Another name that I think should be thrown in the mix is Putz. He's only 29, and even though this is his first year of closing, 72 K's in 55 IP is pretty damn good, along with only 9 walks.


For some reason I think Putz and Otsuka are going to get hit really hard next year. Neither 1 has dominating stuff but get the job done. I think guys will start to figure them out.


Agree with Otsuka, disagree with Putz. I think Putz does have dominating stuff.

Back on topic, I would take Papelbon. I love that he isn't strictly a 3-out closer. He is like his own setup man.


But Rivera isnt????

Papelbon has pitched 2.0+ innings 5 times this year.

Rivera has pitched 2.0+ innings 6 times this year, including a 3 inning outing.


I wouldn't want to start my team with a 38-year old closer.


Ok, just wanted to make sure you knew that Rivera has ALWAYS had the ability to go more than one inning in his career.

Thought you were talking more about this season/next few seasons.
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Postby Strasil42 » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:50 pm

davidmarver wrote:
UncleIvan wrote:You will need a big game pitcher like Mo Rivera.

Big game as in blowing game seven of a world series or big game like blowing game four of the alcs, leading to the biggest collapse in baseball playoff history? I can't decide either.

Give me Nathan and Papelbon.


I think he was refering to Rivera being the best postseason closer of all time.

Since you obviously need a reminder, he is 8-1 with a .81 era, 34 saves, with 87 strike outs, 15 Walks, and 10 earned runs given up.

Rivera's postseason dominance played a critical role in the Yankees' four championships in the late 1990s. His lifetime postseason ERA of 0.81 is the Major League record. From 1998 to 2001, Rivera converted 23 consecutive postseason saves and pitched 34 1/3 consecutive scoreless innings in the postseason, both Major League records. Rivera's 34 postseason saves are more than twice that of the next person, Dennis Eckersley. The pitchers who rank second through fourth for most postseason saves (Eckersley, Jason Isringhausen, and Robb Nen) have combined for 37 career saves. Rivera has very often been used to record 2-inning saves in the postseason, recording 12 of this variety.

In the 1999 World Series, Rivera recorded 2 saves and a win, allowing no runs, as the Yankees swept the Atlanta Braves. This performance earned him the World Series MVP honor. In 2003, Rivera would deliver one of his best postseason performances ever, pitching 3 shutout innings in an 11-inning Game 7 victory over the rival Boston Red Sox in the American League Championship Series. His performance won him the game, and the ALCS MVP Award.
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Postby davidmarver » Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:17 pm

Strasil42 wrote:
davidmarver wrote:
UncleIvan wrote:You will need a big game pitcher like Mo Rivera.

Big game as in blowing game seven of a world series or big game like blowing game four of the alcs, leading to the biggest collapse in baseball playoff history? I can't decide either.

Give me Nathan and Papelbon.


I think he was refering to Rivera being the best postseason closer of all time.

Since you obviously need a reminder, he is 8-1 with a .81 era, 34 saves, with 87 strike outs, 15 Walks, and 10 earned runs given up.

Rivera's postseason dominance played a critical role in the Yankees' four championships in the late 1990s. His lifetime postseason ERA of 0.81 is the Major League record. From 1998 to 2001, Rivera converted 23 consecutive postseason saves and pitched 34 1/3 consecutive scoreless innings in the postseason, both Major League records. Rivera's 34 postseason saves are more than twice that of the next person, Dennis Eckersley. The pitchers who rank second through fourth for most postseason saves (Eckersley, Jason Isringhausen, and Robb Nen) have combined for 37 career saves. Rivera has very often been used to record 2-inning saves in the postseason, recording 12 of this variety.

In the 1999 World Series, Rivera recorded 2 saves and a win, allowing no runs, as the Yankees swept the Atlanta Braves. This performance earned him the World Series MVP honor. In 2003, Rivera would deliver one of his best postseason performances ever, pitching 3 shutout innings in an 11-inning Game 7 victory over the rival Boston Red Sox in the American League Championship Series. His performance won him the game, and the ALCS MVP Award.

Right. He has shown stretches of brilliancy in the postseason. However, he's also been the goat of two Yankee postseasons, arguably costing the Yankees two World Series Titles. You can't acknowledge his brilliancy while dismissing his shortcomings; they both occured. That's why I wouldn't call Rivera a "big game" pitcher. His numbers are good because he's good, but he's been far from flawless in the postseason.

And you can go ahead and call Rivera's postseason ERA the best in history, but that's dismissing Neikro's 20 career postseason shutout innings and John Rocker's 20.7 career postseason shutout innings. Sure, Rivera has thrown more innings, but who has had more postseason chances? You're rewarding him for throwing extra innings that other players haven't had the opportunity to do, yet not counting blowing game seven of a World Series, in which he hit a batter, gave up three hits, and committed an error in less than one inning, against him. By the way, it's pretty fickle to use Rivera's postseason ERA in his favor when that inning I just described only charged him one earned run when a) he committed the error and b) there will still three guys on base at the conclusion of the game.
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Postby Strasil42 » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:56 pm

davidmarver wrote: That's why I wouldn't call Rivera a "big game" pitcher. His numbers are good because he's good, but he's been far from flawless in the postseason.


Who would you consider a big game pitcher then(thats a closer)?????

And when have they ever counted the runners left on base after a walk-off hit????
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