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I hate McKeon!!!

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I hate McKeon!!!

Postby Leiter Fan » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:32 pm

Why the hell did he deny Looper his SECOND save of the week??? There was obviously nothing wrong with Looper, since he was warming in the bullpen, but McKeon still left Urbina in to steal Looper's save.

Under normal circumstances, there would be some rather colorful obscenities in this post to describe these two idiots (McKeon and Urbina), but this is a family site.

I'm feeling so good about my former rock-solid closing corp of Smoltz, Kim and Looper!!! UGHHHHH!!!!! :~(
Last edited by Leiter Fan on Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"One of the teams represents truth, justice, the American way, and underdogs everywhere. The other represents George Steinbrenner!" - U.S. News and World Reports columnist John Leo on the difference between the Mets and the Yankees.
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Postby pkarr5000 » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:33 pm

little unusual. id rather have a fresh looper out there. no pun intended... lol ;-D
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Postby jdh » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:28 pm

Maybe they are looking to split save opps between Urbina and Looper. Urbina has a 1.05 ERA since becoming a Marlin, and Looper has a 5.40 ERA since the all star break. Clearly, Urbina is their best bet at closer right now.
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Postby Madison » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:03 pm

Not sure about that situation. :-?
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Postby Leiter Fan » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:25 pm

With all this crap, I guess this means people should use their first pick on Eric Gagne next year!!!
"One of the teams represents truth, justice, the American way, and underdogs everywhere. The other represents George Steinbrenner!" - U.S. News and World Reports columnist John Leo on the difference between the Mets and the Yankees.
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Postby Madison » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:28 pm

Leiter Fan wrote:With all this crap, I guess this means people should use their first pick on Eric Gagne next year!!!


I'd be willing to bet that someone out there does. As a matter of fact, I saw it happen this year in a 12 team league. Gagne was the 10th pick overall (1st round) and Smoltz was the 17th pick overall (2nd round). I couldn't believe it when I saw that league's draft results. 8-o It's a shame that I wasn't in that league, seemed like easy pickens. ;-7 Lol. :-D
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Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Postby jdh » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:45 pm

I think if anything, this year proves the danger of using high draft picks on any closer. Look at this list of what were probably considered the top tier closers going into the season, and whether they lived up to their value.

Smoltz: OK but stretch drive DL stint killing his owners
Gagne: OK
Wagner: OK
Foulke: OK
Benitez: Bust: traded to setup role halfway through season
Hoffman: Bust: injured out for season
Nen: Bust: out for season
Guardado: OK
Rivera: Generally OK, except for lower saves total and April DL stint
Percival: Disappointment; low saves total and ERA over 4.00
Isringhausen: Bust: missed half the season
Urbina: Bust: traded to setup role halfway through season
Sasaki: Bust: injuries and ineffectiveness all year
Koch: Bust: just fell apart

6 of the 14 top closers were almost total busts, and 3 more fell short of their draft value. That means that 9 of the 14 generally considered top tier closers didn't match draft value, which really shows how hit and miss closers are, almost more so than any position. Yes, Gagne has been solid for two years, but next year could be the year something happens to him, so investing really high draft picks (before 5th round) in any closer seems like a bad idea.

Also, closer turmoil makes it easier to get cheap saves off the waiver wire. Someone who drafted no closers, but grabbed Worrell, Borowski, Carter and Biddle off waivers early in the year would probably lead their league in saves. The constant emergence of new closers even further diminishes the value of top closers IMO.
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Postby Brokentusks9 » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:55 pm

jdh you can add Escobar to that list.

As a closer he was Busty McBust.
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Postby Madison » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:56 pm

I agree. Closer's values are not that much because there seems to be a new one every few days that can be picked up for free. At the beginning of the season, solid closers were extremely valuable, but their value has dropped over the course of the season.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Postby jdh » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:57 pm

Yeah, I was only looking at the closers that were considered elite and proven on that list. You can surely add others like Escobar, Jimenez, Williamson, etc. but they were considered to be low end closing options going into the season anyway.
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