Most fragile pitcher... - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Most fragile pitcher...

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby Dr. Duran Duran » Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:58 am

No question, Wood and Prior take the cake. I'd place Ben Sheets in there as well. Rich Harden is starting to get on my nerves. Bartolo Colon always keeps me nervous.
Image
Dr. Duran Duran
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
CafecasterTrivia Time Trial Champion
Posts: 1785
Joined: 20 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Here, there and everywhere

Postby theclefe » Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:30 am

I would have to go Pedro. I don't consider Prior or Wood elite. Beckett is up on my list too but I don't regard him as elite either. That said, it is hard for a fragile pitcher to truly become elite because despite what they do in the short stints they are healthy, it will always be held against them if they didn't pitch a full season.

Is Gagne still considered elite? He was regarded as one of the best before his injuries.
Image
theclefe
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown Survivor
Posts: 1747
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Rakeville

Postby Gags Sports » Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:11 am

teddy ballgame wrote:
Gags Sports wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
Gags Sports wrote:Wait a minute. If Wood's not going to be considered elite, then neither can Prior. Prior's only had one good year. Wood had 3-4 good years, depending on if you want to consider his rookie season. At what point do we separate hype and reality?


When Wood gets 3 years younger I'll call him elite again. Prior is still only 26, and a lot of guys have breakout years at 27. There's still plenty of hope for his career. Wood seems to be over the hill already. People want him to be a closer in the future because he can't last 60 pitches.


OK, so then why are you considering Prior as an elite pitcher if you're still holding out hope that he one day can break out. The more I think about this, the more I'm of the belief that neither of these guys are close to elite.


He's already broken out. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. My point is he's not even at the age of typical breakout, so there's still a good chance of a bright career.


If you're going to conclude that Prior has already broken out, then you have to conclude that Wood has already broken out. Granted, Prior is three years younger. But the original poster asked if ALL pitchers were healthy...

If Kerry Wood were healthy, he would be a 2nd to 3rd round pick. If Mark Prior were healhty, he would be a 2nd to 3rd round pick as well, but would probably go before Wood.

One can argue that Wood has been injured more than Prior, but one could also argue that Wood has been around longer than Prior, therefore has had more opportunity to get hurt.

I just don't see how one good year from Prior makes him elite. If someone promised me he would be healthy, then I would agree with you. But if someone promised me Wood would be healthy, I would also consider him elite.
Gags Sports
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Eagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 1713
(Past Year: 12)
Joined: 9 Nov 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby mak1277 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:27 am

Havok1517 wrote:Where are the Bob Gibson's of the world? He would pitch without an arm.


Problem is that these guys make so much money today, they know the teams are going to baby them and take care of them. So Ben Sheets (for example only) has no personal incentive to pitch hurt. Those guys in the 40's, 50's, 60's...if they were hurt, they were useless and discarded. They weren't making enough money to have it hurt their teams. All those guys were probably pitching through "injuries" that put guys on the shelf today.
mak1277
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy Expert
Posts: 4569
(Past Year: 5)
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Northern Virginia

Postby teddy ballgame » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:37 am

Gags Sports wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
Gags Sports wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
Gags Sports wrote:Wait a minute. If Wood's not going to be considered elite, then neither can Prior. Prior's only had one good year. Wood had 3-4 good years, depending on if you want to consider his rookie season. At what point do we separate hype and reality?


When Wood gets 3 years younger I'll call him elite again. Prior is still only 26, and a lot of guys have breakout years at 27. There's still plenty of hope for his career. Wood seems to be over the hill already. People want him to be a closer in the future because he can't last 60 pitches.


OK, so then why are you considering Prior as an elite pitcher if you're still holding out hope that he one day can break out. The more I think about this, the more I'm of the belief that neither of these guys are close to elite.


He's already broken out. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. My point is he's not even at the age of typical breakout, so there's still a good chance of a bright career.


If you're going to conclude that Prior has already broken out, then you have to conclude that Wood has already broken out. Granted, Prior is three years younger.

Stop right there. That's what I've said all along. It's because of age imo. If Wood was healthy there's no way he would be a 2nd rounder. In his best years, his ERA is in the mid 3's. He's a good K pitcher, and that's about it. He's not a 2nd rounder. Prior had an ERA under 2.5 in his healthy year. That added to the fact he's only 26 and still has quite a few prime years ahead of him makes him elite if he were healthy.
Image
teddy ballgame
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 11485
Joined: 7 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Beantown

Postby wrveres » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:54 am

Image
wrveres
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe Musketeer
Posts: 31783
(Past Year: 720)
Joined: 2 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby TheYanks04 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:56 am

teddy ballgame wrote:
Gags Sports wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
Gags Sports wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
Gags Sports wrote:Wait a minute. If Wood's not going to be considered elite, then neither can Prior. Prior's only had one good year. Wood had 3-4 good years, depending on if you want to consider his rookie season. At what point do we separate hype and reality?


When Wood gets 3 years younger I'll call him elite again. Prior is still only 26, and a lot of guys have breakout years at 27. There's still plenty of hope for his career. Wood seems to be over the hill already. People want him to be a closer in the future because he can't last 60 pitches.


OK, so then why are you considering Prior as an elite pitcher if you're still holding out hope that he one day can break out. The more I think about this, the more I'm of the belief that neither of these guys are close to elite.


He's already broken out. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. My point is he's not even at the age of typical breakout, so there's still a good chance of a bright career.


If you're going to conclude that Prior has already broken out, then you have to conclude that Wood has already broken out. Granted, Prior is three years younger.

Stop right there. That's what I've said all along. It's because of age imo. If Wood was healthy there's no way he would be a 2nd rounder. In his best years, his ERA is in the mid 3's. He's a good K pitcher, and that's about it. He's not a 2nd rounder. Prior had an ERA under 2.5 in his healthy year. That added to the fact he's only 26 and still has quite a few prime years ahead of him makes him elite if he were healthy.



Saying "If they are healthy they would be elite" wrt to any of theese guys is like saying "if pigs could fly, they would have wings".

Seriously, guys like Wood and Prior are without a doubt considered elite due to them being hyped by the Cubs and Media for the rather short period of time they managed to actually stay healthy. The record indicates that neither can stay heathy for very long. Now in fairness, Wood has had some serious injuries while Prior some can claim has been a bit unlucky with some flukeish injuries. As such Prior has a chance to turn it arund in he comng years. I just would not pay a dime in a keeper at this point that he would. In fact I passed on a $8 Prior in an auction league this year...wanted no part of the guy as last season was the last straw for me wrt Mr. Prior at any level. Wood is basically headed to reitirement in short order if the downward progression continues.

As to Sheets and Harden, they are so injury prone at this point I would think a bag of rocks/a late teen pick is what each will cost in next season's draft. You can look at it as an opportunity which I supposeit is. However, I have found from experience that there is usually one owner in every league that will overpay for these guys. Just like there is one that will overpay for Griffey and to a lesser extent Pedro. Don't be caught overpaying in an effort to go off that cliff faster than him. Sometimes you win paying a 10th round pick for a 17th round risk and get a round 3 player, but most often you lose and hurt your team by paying a 10th round price for a DL slot.
TheYanks04
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero


Posts: 9531
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:26 pm

Prior because of the variety and strangeness of his injuries. Woods is simply a player whose arm got hurt. Plenty of those (e.g. Burnett, Pavano, Wright).

But with Prior, you have balls off the elbow, crashing into second basemen, throat infections, oblique injuries from batting practice, burning his tongue on warm milk, etc.

So I'd go with Prior. Wrveres picture is the perfect depiction of him.
Dawgpound 1613
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Sweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 2095
Joined: 7 Oct 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: \Lo*ca"tion\, n. 1. The act or process of locating. 2. Situation; place; locality.

Postby chadlincoln » Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:08 pm

I'd call Wood "brittle."
7/26 - Cafe goes down:

General Error
SQL ERROR [ mysql4 ]
Table './cafe_forums/baseball_sessions' is marked as crashed and should be repaired [145]
An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator if this problem persists.
chadlincoln
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb Supporter
Posts: 10983
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Bleachers at Wrigley Field

Postby Danimal » Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:39 pm

Wood, Prior, Sheets. I have never owned them and am better off because of it. I can find my Ks elsewhere.
Danimal
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 935
Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Previous

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

cron
Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Tuesday, Sep. 30
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Oakland at Kansas City
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact