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Postby Matthias » Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:24 pm

Havok1517 wrote:
Matthias wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:I didn't wanna go back and read all of the posts but did want to mention that the Yankees are a horribly run business in terms of financial return though they are typically the most successful in terms of winning. The Yankee franchise is worth more than any other baseball team as well (Forbes).


One of these things isn't true.


What are you talking about? Forbes magazine valued the club at $1.026 billion in April 2006. For a few years now, the Yankees have spent more money than they have made. Just because they incur a loss doesn't necessarily effect the worth of the franchise nor the yankee name.


What I'm talking about is something called finance.

The value of any asset is equal to the present value of its future profits. I'm not going to give a primer on financial modeling here, but wikipedia has a decent link if you scroll down to the DCF analysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valuation_ ... cash_flows

But the upshot of it all is that an asset (be it an oil well, pizza joint, or baseball team) is worth the future value of its profit streams. The fact that the Yankees are worth the most according to Forbes means that they also profit the most, whether that profit shows up on Yankees revenues minus Yankees expenses or whether that profit shows up in its stake in the YES network. If you want to read how YES allows Steinbrenner to shield his revenues from baseball profit sharing and report a phantom loss in the operation of the Yankees, you can read here. http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/0428/064_print.html

So, to return to the original point, given that the Yankees are baseball's most highly-valued franchise, they are not financially poorly run. Indeed, the opposite is true.

Tavish has given a fairly good and comprehensive explanation on revenue sharing for the cable networks. Without contradicting anything he's said, I'd also just chime in that the new revenue imbalance isn't in the cable deals (although they continue to do so) but rather in other affiliated enterprises. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=3293 If you don't want to follow the link, the upshot is that by building a new Yankees stadium, Steinbrenner will be further bleeding Yankees, Inc., revenue, lowering his contribution to revenue sharing, to create a stadium and affiliated structures that will then be exempt from revenue sharing as they won't be part of the Yankees, Inc., income stream. (The tickets at the stadium will be, obviously, but the revenue from the planned hotel & conference center will not). And as far as I can tell, those plans are still operational. http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/nyybpk.htm

Wow. That was long. But this stuff isn't cut-and-dried.
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Postby Strasil42 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:56 pm

Matthias wrote:
michaelp wrote:It all depends on your team's revenue, The twins do wanna spend money but can't because they dont have the fan base the yankees or Red Sox have (Evil empires) j/k

For the yankees for example they have their own TV network to broadcast to the world or nationally.

As a Oakland A's fan I know this, If you go to a Oakland home game you can tell the difference. To have the a Oakland A's game sold out is rare, but for the yankees almost everyday they have it sold out. Teams like the Giants in San Francisco suprise me, not surprisingley SBC park has a lot of Sell outs just like any other baseball team but Sabean doesn't spend much money in the ballclub. Thats the Owner's fault


Yankees games are NEVER sold out. When the Red Sox come into town and that's it.


Four million mark: The Yankees have sold more than 4 million tickets for the second consecutive season and there are still significant number of tickets available.

The Yankees sold an American League-record 4,090,692 tickets last season, but are on pace to break that record, having sold 258,905 more tickets than they sold by this date in 2005.

Last year's mark made the Yankees just the third franchise in professional sports history to reach the 4 million mark, joining the Toronto Blue Jays from 1991-93 and the Colorado Rockies in 1993.

The Yankees lead the Major Leagues in both total home attendance and average home attendance this season. They also lead the in average road attendance, topping the league average by almost 10,000 fans per game.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/arti ... p&c_id=nyy
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Postby Matthias » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:04 pm

Strasil42 wrote:
Matthias wrote:
michaelp wrote:It all depends on your team's revenue, The twins do wanna spend money but can't because they dont have the fan base the yankees or Red Sox have (Evil empires) j/k

For the yankees for example they have their own TV network to broadcast to the world or nationally.

As a Oakland A's fan I know this, If you go to a Oakland home game you can tell the difference. To have the a Oakland A's game sold out is rare, but for the yankees almost everyday they have it sold out. Teams like the Giants in San Francisco suprise me, not surprisingley SBC park has a lot of Sell outs just like any other baseball team but Sabean doesn't spend much money in the ballclub. Thats the Owner's fault


Yankees games are NEVER sold out. When the Red Sox come into town and that's it.


Four million mark: The Yankees have sold more than 4 million tickets for the second consecutive season and there are still significant number of tickets available.

The Yankees sold an American League-record 4,090,692 tickets last season, but are on pace to break that record, having sold 258,905 more tickets than they sold by this date in 2005.

Last year's mark made the Yankees just the third franchise in professional sports history to reach the 4 million mark, joining the Toronto Blue Jays from 1991-93 and the Colorado Rockies in 1993.

The Yankees lead the Major Leagues in both total home attendance and average home attendance this season. They also lead the in average road attendance, topping the league average by almost 10,000 fans per game.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/arti ... p&c_id=nyy


Ok. But that says nothing about how many games they've sold out. Which is all that I said.

If you want to talk about how the Yankees have the highest attendance, then look at my post comparing populations of NYC and Oakland/San Francisco. Yah. New York has alot of people. And so it draws in a high attendance. But it still doesn't result in lots of sell outs in Yankee Stadium, much less almost everyday, which is what the guy said.
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Postby Strasil42 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:06 pm

Matthias wrote:
Strasil42 wrote:
Matthias wrote:
michaelp wrote:It all depends on your team's revenue, The twins do wanna spend money but can't because they dont have the fan base the yankees or Red Sox have (Evil empires) j/k

For the yankees for example they have their own TV network to broadcast to the world or nationally.

As a Oakland A's fan I know this, If you go to a Oakland home game you can tell the difference. To have the a Oakland A's game sold out is rare, but for the yankees almost everyday they have it sold out. Teams like the Giants in San Francisco suprise me, not surprisingley SBC park has a lot of Sell outs just like any other baseball team but Sabean doesn't spend much money in the ballclub. Thats the Owner's fault


Yankees games are NEVER sold out. When the Red Sox come into town and that's it.


Four million mark: The Yankees have sold more than 4 million tickets for the second consecutive season and there are still significant number of tickets available.

The Yankees sold an American League-record 4,090,692 tickets last season, but are on pace to break that record, having sold 258,905 more tickets than they sold by this date in 2005.

Last year's mark made the Yankees just the third franchise in professional sports history to reach the 4 million mark, joining the Toronto Blue Jays from 1991-93 and the Colorado Rockies in 1993.

The Yankees lead the Major Leagues in both total home attendance and average home attendance this season. They also lead the in average road attendance, topping the league average by almost 10,000 fans per game.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/arti ... p&c_id=nyy


Ok. But that says nothing about how many games they've sold out. Which is all that I said.

If you want to talk about how the Yankees have the highest attendance, then look at my post comparing populations of NYC and Oakland/San Francisco. Yah. New York has alot of people. And so it draws in a high attendance. But it still doesn't result in lots of sell outs in Yankee Stadium, much less almost everyday, which is what the guy said.


And as someone else mentioned, doesnt Yankee stadium have about 20,000 more seats than Fenway. Im sure it would sell out a ton more if it was so small.

I saw your post, and I also saw this.

Lets look at the biggest cities in America and Canada

New York: City Pop: 8.1 million
LA: City Pop: 3.8 Million
Chicago: 2.8 Million
Toronto: 2.5 million
Houston: 2.0 Million

BTW: Boston 600,000

Now considering New York has 2 baseball teams fielding you could break that down to 4.0 million yanks fans/ 4.0 million Mets fans.

Still a big Market but lets not pretend that Toronto is a small city. Its freaking huge
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Postby Strasil42 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:12 pm

I don't know where to find the sell-out numbers but I did come up with the 2005 numbers.

Press Release
09/01/2005 5:47 PM ET
Yankees approach ticket-sales record

The New York Yankees have already sold more than 4,000,000 tickets for the 2005 regular season-establishing a franchise record-and are now approaching the Toronto Blue Jays’ American-League record of 4,057,947 tickets sold in 1993.

To date, the Yankees have sold approximately 4,038,000 tickets-an increase of more than 236,000 tickets sold at this point in 2004.

“Our fans continue to overwhelm us with their support and demonstrate why they are the best fans in the world,” said Yankees COO Lonn Trost. “Our goal as an organization starts and ends with the fans. Mr. Steinbrenner continues to provide the fans with an exciting team and they recognize his commitment to winning.”

In 2004, the Yankees established an all-time franchise record with a paid attendance of 3,775,292. This season, through the first 68 games played at Yankee Stadium, the Yankees lead the Major Leagues in total home attendance (3,410,319) and average home attendance (50,152). They have hosted 38 sellouts at Yankee Stadium this season, including 22 straight from June 24-August 14. The Yankees have now drawn three-million fans to Yankee Stadium in each of the last seven seasons (since 1999).

http://www.nyyblog.da.ru/weblog/?p=115
Last edited by Strasil42 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Matthias » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:13 pm

Strasil42 wrote:And as someone else mentioned, doesnt Yankee stadium have about 20,000 more seats than Fenway. Im sure it would sell out a ton more if it was so small.

I saw your post, and I also saw this.

Lets look at the biggest cities in America and Canada

New York: City Pop: 8.1 million
LA: City Pop: 3.8 Million
Chicago: 2.8 Million
Toronto: 2.5 million
Houston: 2.0 Million

BTW: Boston 600,000

Now considering New York has 2 baseball teams fielding you could break that down to 4.0 million yanks fans/ 4.0 million Mets fans.

Still a big Market but lets not pretend that Toronto is a small city. Its freaking huge


Yah. Fenway caps out at about 35,000 or so. Yankee Stadium is around 60,000, I think. Alright, per Google 57,746. And per Google Fenway is at 36,108. But all I said is that Yankee Stadium hardly ever sells outs. Which is true.

And lessee: LA has two teams. (You gotta throw the Angels in there). Chicago has two teams. Toronto has one team. And Houston only has one team. Boston actually has a larger relavent population because much of what people would consider, "Boston" isn't, actually. It's Cambridge, Newton, Somerville, etc.

But still. So the Yankees have an in-town fan base of approx. 4 million if you assume the city is 50/50 (which in my experience isn't actually true, but whatever). That dwarfs the fan base of all the other cities except Toronto which, as noted, is not a baseball town. The town belongs to the Leafs.
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Postby Strasil42 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:14 pm

Matthias wrote:
Strasil42 wrote:And as someone else mentioned, doesnt Yankee stadium have about 20,000 more seats than Fenway. Im sure it would sell out a ton more if it was so small.

I saw your post, and I also saw this.

Lets look at the biggest cities in America and Canada

New York: City Pop: 8.1 million
LA: City Pop: 3.8 Million
Chicago: 2.8 Million
Toronto: 2.5 million
Houston: 2.0 Million

BTW: Boston 600,000

Now considering New York has 2 baseball teams fielding you could break that down to 4.0 million yanks fans/ 4.0 million Mets fans.

Still a big Market but lets not pretend that Toronto is a small city. Its freaking huge


But all I said is that Yankee Stadium hardly ever sells outs. Which is true.


Is it????


This season, through the first 68 games played at Yankee Stadium, the Yankees lead the Major Leagues in total home attendance (3,410,319) and average home attendance (50,152). They have hosted 38 sellouts at Yankee Stadium this season, including 22 straight from June 24-August 14.


8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o

Where are you getting your sellout numbers??? Or do you just look around the stadium at the few games you watch?
Last edited by Strasil42 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Matthias » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:18 pm

Strasil42 wrote: But all I said is that Yankee Stadium hardly ever sells outs. Which is true.


Is it????


This season, through the first 68 games played at Yankee Stadium, the Yankees lead the Major Leagues in total home attendance (3,410,319) and average home attendance (50,152). They have hosted 38 sellouts at Yankee Stadium this season, including 22 straight from June 24-August 14.[/quote]

About 50%? That's more than I thought. That's for sure. I guess I was thinking in terms of being difficult to get tickets, which only seems to be the case when they're playing the Sox. All other times you can find them available pretty easily.
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Postby Strasil42 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:21 pm

Matthias wrote:
Strasil42 wrote: But all I said is that Yankee Stadium hardly ever sells outs. Which is true.


Is it????


This season, through the first 68 games played at Yankee Stadium, the Yankees lead the Major Leagues in total home attendance (3,410,319) and average home attendance (50,152). They have hosted 38 sellouts at Yankee Stadium this season, including 22 straight from June 24-August 14.


About 50%? That's more than I thought. That's for sure. I guess I was thinking in terms of being difficult to get tickets, which only seems to be the case when they're playing the Sox. All other times you can find them available pretty easily.[/quote]

Yeah, a little over 50%. 56% over that span to be exact.

Btw i edited my post to see where you got your sellout numbers.

Where were you getting them before when you were claiming that they hardly ever sell out?
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Postby Strasil42 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:25 pm

Does anyone know what George bought the Yankee franchise for??

I know it was for a pretty small ammount, compared to what it is worth today.

Looks like he did alright.
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