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Postby Zito is God » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:02 pm

davidmarver wrote:
acsguitar wrote:the truth is that Stein doesn't make tons of money off the Yankees.

HA! :-b

Steinbrenner probably makes more off the Yankees while the salary is at $200 million than any other owner does off his team.

You're forgetting the partnership the Yankees have -- only team who could have gotten such a partnership -- with Manchester United and the subsequent overseas market they get from that. I'm only brushing the surface of extra non-NY revenue Steinbrenner recieves every year.

Go ahead and blame the other owners for being greedy by "pocketing" the money, but you're writing off George's spending sprees as being "passionate", while he's really being greedy in his own way by somewhat purchasing titles, purchasing fan favorites from other ballclubs, and making it near impossible to root for his product if you aren't a born Yankees fan. Do you really think George would be for full-blown revenue sharing? Of course not; and you'd equate that with passion for the Yankees, while in the end it's really self-greed and a lack of passion for baseball itself.

Go ahead and think George is great, but the fans of 29 of 30 teams think otherwise. He's no Mark Cuban. :-t


So explain these two things to me:

1. How in the world does george has "lack of passion"? Any signs you actually see, or is this pure Yankee hate talking?

2. You keep claiming George buys all these markets and is greedy by purchasing partnerships. Guess what, it's good buisness. Other owner's have the exact same opportunity, George makes his money through good strategy and buisnees (the only way to make money actually) while others have the ability to do the same (Plenty of Mets, Braves, and Boston fans out there so don't tell me the market sucks for the other 29 teams) yet don't do anything. This brings me to my original point of agreeing with everything you are saying, but not understanding why you seem to persue that it is wrong?
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Postby davidmarver » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:04 pm

Zito is God wrote:Well, The Drays would need more money innew york because the crowd wouldn't handle all this "we have ready minor leaguers but we don't wanna start the arbitration clock cause we're cheap" crap.

No they wouldn't. They'd have a huge market to work with that would bring in much more money than they currently bring in.

Try signing some all stars for big money (that we all know you have) and actually try opening the wallet to get some good players out there instread of worrying about the extra 50 mil for yourself.

Do you understand how money works? If he spends 100 million on the Royals, he will lose a boatload of money; there's no if ands or butts about that. So you need Glass to lose money for him to seem passionate? Come on; I'm surprised the Royals signed Hochevar for the price tag he had.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:05 pm

Tavish...

Can Glass spend more money without operating at a loss? I'm not asking if he can put up $100-$200 million like Steinbrenner does...but does he have the money to at least make the Royals better than the pit they are right now? They don't have one real all-star player.

Is KC in that deep of a hole, to the point where they are doing everything they can to put together the best team possible? Or can more be done?
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Postby Zito is God » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:10 pm

There is no guarantee how much he loses because a better team can go farther, better players sell more tickets, etc.

The Ownership at KC has pretty much given up at this point. They do not sign any good players, and it does not look like they ever will. Talk about passion huh? The team will need to be moved in the next 5 years if it keeps going like this because fans will be disappearing since there is nothing to see.
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Postby davidmarver » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:11 pm

Zito is God wrote:So explain these two things to me:

1. How in the world does george has "lack of passion"? Any signs you actually see, or is this pure Yankee hate talking?

If George voted down full-blown revenue sharing, it would be a lack of passion for the game of baseball.

2. You keep claiming George buys all these markets and is greedy by purchasing partnerships. Guess what, it's good buisness. Other owner's have the exact same opportunity, George makes his money through good strategy and buisnees (the only way to make money actually) while others have the ability to do the same (Plenty of Mets, Braves, and Boston fans out there so don't tell me the market sucks for the other 29 teams) yet don't do anything. This brings me to my original point of agreeing with everything you are saying, but not understanding why you seem to persue that it is wrong?

So now you're claiming good business? Isn't what Glass is doing; having a $40 million payroll so he can make $5 million good business? And you're acting as if any team could go out there are get a partnership with a Manchester United, or market outside the United States. That's simply not true! Do you think foreign markets would want anything to do with the Kansas City Royals? Do you honestly think the Royals could market to Japan while still profiting?

You want small market teams to spend big market money. You don't seem to remember what happened to the Arizona Diamondbacks; they payed big market money and sure, they won, but look at what it did to the business that was the Arizona Diamondbacks. The owners went bankrupt...do you think other owners would go bankrupt to win once? No and if you think George would, you're crazy.
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Postby davidmarver » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:17 pm

Zito is God wrote:There is no guarantee how much he loses because a better team can go farther, better players sell more tickets, etc.

The team's highest paid player ever has been on the DL for nearly every season of his $55 million dollar contract. And, unlike the Yankees, if they have an $11 million dollar a year player go down with an injury, there's no recovering. You can't spew out another $11 million dollar contract, because you're running a 47 million dollar team out there at 58 million. That reeks of a loss of money.

The Ownership at KC has pretty much given up at this point. They do not sign any good players, and it does not look like they ever will.

Apparently you missed their organization taking a high-priced first overall pick and giving him a major league contract.

Talk about passion huh? The team will need to be moved in the next 5 years if it keeps going like this because fans will be disappearing since there is nothing to see.

There's nothing to see because anything you'd want to see costs to much because of the other teams who markets allow them the ability to afford such lofty contracts.
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Postby Zito is God » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:36 pm

I realize KC does not have the market to make international partnerships, but there are certainly teams that do (notice how I did not include the Royals in my examples, but ATL, NYM, and BOS certainly have the fan base).

You can't make an excuse to the fans by saying "Well, we don't wanna sign good players for good money because if they get injured we're screwed". In other words, theres risk involved with trying to win so you don't try. I am not comparing the Yankee abilities with their star on the DL vs. the Royals, I am saying that you can't, before even making a signing, automatically assume "Well, this guy will likely get hurt, we'll likely be out of it then, so we don't really need to try, here's to another worst baseball team in the league season".

Hochevar is not a savior, and if they weren't afraid of money they would have taken Miller over him.

If George voted down full-blown revenue sharing, it would be a lack of passion for the game of baseball.




From the other team's point of view! from George's point of view, you'd have to be a fool to note vote it down. Thing is, we're talking about different passions here. I'm talking about the "I want to win no matter what, and I'll do anything to get there" type and you're speaking of the "Baseball is a great historic game so lets be nice owners and level out the playing field with revenue sharing". What's next? When you're star 3rd baseman goes down with injury I have to have "passion for the game" and sit my star 3rd baseman to "level out the playing field"?

Voting down revenue sharing has nothing to do with the passion you have for your team to win. Poor example in my opinion.
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Postby Tavish » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:37 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:Tavish...

Can Glass spend more money without operating at a loss? I'm not asking if he can put up $100-$200 million like Steinbrenner does...but does he have the money to at least make the Royals better than the pit they are right now? They don't have one real all-star player.

Is KC in that deep of a hole, to the point where they are doing everything they can to put together the best team possible? Or can more be done?


They are spending more money. They added $11 million to the payroll from 2004. The team had alot more needs than spending $10 million on one All-Star player. $25 million (the money Baird had to spend on free-agents this season) goes quick when you need to completely rebuild a rotation, add depth at MR, fill two infield and an outfield gap. They *could* have spent the $25 million on two All-Star quality players, but then they would be in an even worse position than they are now.

They are putting more money into the minor leagues that doesn't show up in the payroll numbers. They shelled out big bonus money to get Hochevar ($3.5 million) and Gordon ($4 million) signed. They are putting up $25 million towards renovating Kauffman stadium to help increase revenue.

The problem was that they weren't getting worthwhile returns on the players they were signing which makes it difficult to grow the revenue stream from the fans and is why Baird is no longer here. They are still paying for the mistake that was the Mike Sweeney contract and they will be paying for several years on the complete debacle that was the 2005 season when they were deluded by the 2004 season (83 wins) into thinking they didn't need to worry about rebuilding anymore.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:41 pm

Tavish wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Tavish...

Can Glass spend more money without operating at a loss? I'm not asking if he can put up $100-$200 million like Steinbrenner does...but does he have the money to at least make the Royals better than the pit they are right now? They don't have one real all-star player.

Is KC in that deep of a hole, to the point where they are doing everything they can to put together the best team possible? Or can more be done?


They are spending more money. They added $11 million to the payroll from 2004. The team had alot more needs than spending $10 million on one All-Star player. $25 million (the money Baird had to spend on free-agents this season) goes quick when you need to completely rebuild a rotation, add depth at MR, fill two infield and an outfield gap. They *could* have spent the $25 million on two All-Star quality players, but then they would be in an even worse position than they are now.

They are putting more money into the minor leagues that doesn't show up in the payroll numbers. They shelled out big bonus money to get Hochevar ($3.5 million) and Gordon ($4 million) signed. They are putting up $25 million towards renovating Kauffman stadium to help increase revenue.

The problem was that they weren't getting worthwhile returns on the players they were signing which makes it difficult to grow the revenue stream from the fans and is why Baird is no longer here. They are still paying for the mistake that was the Mike Sweeney contract and they will be paying for several years on the complete debacle that was the 2005 season when they were deluded by the 2004 season (83 wins) into thinking they didn't need to worry about rebuilding anymore.


Thanks for the response.

What can be done though? What can the MLB do that will fix the problem? Why can't they divide all revenue equally like the NFL does?
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Postby Tavish » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:17 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:What can be done though? What can the MLB do that will fix the problem? Why can't they divide all revenue equally like the NFL does?


First off, I don't think the problem is nearly as big as some make it out to be. Small market teams can win, its just the margin for error is very small. You can't make Mike Sweeney mistakes and get away with it. While its not exactly fair, its not going to be the demise of baseball IMO.

Its not that the MLB can't divide the revenue more evenly, the owners just choose not to. If the all the owners were simply selling the rights to broadcast the games locally it would be one thing, but in several cases the owners themselves own the broadcasting station.

The fix for the problem is actually already out there, its just going to take time for it make enough headway to show an impact. The MLB.com TV package is the MLB's version of a national television contract and the profits are split evenly between the clubs and could help bring the teams closer in terms of available revenue. If it ever becomes popular enough to take a solid percentage of viewers away from the cable outlets that is.
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