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Postby BronXBombers51 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:46 pm

BritSox wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Matthias wrote:(2) Other teams cannot spend nearly at the Yankees level and be profitable, or even break-even.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Yankees lost money last year. I remember a big thread about it after last season. I'll see if I can dig it up.


Creative accountancy. The Yankee baseball operation lost money. That doesn't count the franchise's stake in YES, which made a ton of money. Steinbrenner overall raked it in.


Thanks for the correction.

I'm not as enlightened on the whole financial aspect of franchises as some of you guys are, but can the Royals, Devil Rays, Pirates franchises of the world rally not spend any more money to improve their team? It seems ridiculous to me. I'm not expecting them to spend $200 million like George, or even $100 million. But are they seriously in such a bind that the Royals don't have one player even CLOSE to being all-star caliber (they had to take Mark Redman from their team this year)?
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Postby winterball22 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:54 pm

Baseball needs a cap. Matthias is right, the teams market plays a large role. George spends large amounts of baseball dollars, because he makes alot of baseball dollars. You stick the Yankees in Montreal and there is no way George spends 200 million a year.
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Postby BritSox » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:11 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
BritSox wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Matthias wrote:(2) Other teams cannot spend nearly at the Yankees level and be profitable, or even break-even.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Yankees lost money last year. I remember a big thread about it after last season. I'll see if I can dig it up.


Creative accountancy. The Yankee baseball operation lost money. That doesn't count the franchise's stake in YES, which made a ton of money. Steinbrenner overall raked it in.


Thanks for the correction.

I'm not as enlightened on the whole financial aspect of franchises as some of you guys are, but can the Royals, Devil Rays, Pirates franchises of the world rally not spend any more money to improve their team? It seems ridiculous to me. I'm not expecting them to spend $200 million like George, or even $100 million. But are they seriously in such a bind that the Royals don't have one player even CLOSE to being all-star caliber (they had to take Mark Redman from their team this year)?


You are, of course, right. THere was a study at the start of the year that showed that a lot of the smaller-market teams have payrolls that are half or sometimes more revenue-sharing. The system actually dinincentivizes these owners to spend money on a winning team that draws more fans, sells more merch etc, as an increase in the team's own revenue just means less net income from sharing. For instance, even if signing a 10m/year FA added that much income by drawing more fans, a bigger TV deal or something, the team would be paying 20% of that income back to sharing, and would receive less from the system on account of being considered a bigger market now.
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Postby Kurtangletn » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:26 pm

Matthias wrote:Here's the problem with this argument: noone really respects the guy who solves all of his problems with money.

I've heard a million times that the Yankees just try harder. Do they have longer practices? Do they break down more game film? Do they spend more time in the weight room? Do their scouts spend longer looking at prospects?

Compare it to the Minnesota Twins. They preach fundamentals in the minors. Their players do drills. Their players come up with strong defense. I read an article a couple of years ago talking to a guy who was a Minnesota scout. His first game scouting he was with someone who had been with the organization. In the sixth inning, the player they had come to see was out so the new guy got up to leave. The other guy told him to sit back down. And then said, "We stay for the whole game. We're with the Minnesota Twins."

THAT kind of work people respect. But just busting out a checkbook and saying, "How much?" that isn't work. And it's not possible for most of the teams and cities. Most teams claim poverty and then tell their fan base if they don't get a sweeter deal (new stadium, new renovation, more of a tax break) that they're going to have to move to a larger city. So the guy who just says, "Money? Hah!" ... he doesn't get respect. He gets despised.

Sorry. That's just the truth of it.

And incidentally, I'm always amused at how proud Yankees fans are of George Steinbrenner spending his money. Do you guys do Yankees fundraisers? Do you send George your own money? Do you all agree to pay 0.05% of Derek Jeter's contract? Just asking.
I agree.

The MLB needs a cap, if it takes a year like the NHL so be it. I think the union can be beat. It just takes some muscle, something the MLB hasn't shown. I can't see the players not accpeting some type of cap after a year or so.

Its just not right for teams like Pittsburgh, and especially teams like Oakland who draft so well and really deserve to be the best in the league for a long time but can't maintain there players when they hit FAs.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:59 pm

I read some posts from some old threads similar to this one. I think Tavish says it best...

Tavish wrote:A salary cap is an awful solution to the problem, only providing a cosmetic fix for the real problem. The only real solution that doesn't hamper the player's ability to maximize earnings is to move towards a full revenue sharing that is in place in the NFL. The NFL cap is the red herring in the NFL's competitive balance, its only reason is to increase the profitability of owners. Of course with the traditional ownership rights of baseball owners full revenue sharing will never be achieved.
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Postby winterball22 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:24 pm

Tavish starts out by stating that a cap is an aweful solution and the later supports the NFL. I still think a salary cap is needed in baseball. What the Yankees are doing is within the parameters of MLB, but it's not good for MLB.
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Postby byfrcp » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:31 pm

What's the big deal if the Yankees spend more money than everyone else? If you don't realize the Yankees and Royals have had the exact same record for the past 5 years, 0-5. Big difference in payroll, but the exact same record, so why is it a big deal?
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Postby Matthias » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:34 pm

winterball22 wrote:Tavish starts out by stating that a cap is an aweful solution and the later supports the NFL. I still think a salary cap is needed in baseball. What the Yankees are doing is within the parameters of MLB, but it's not good for MLB.


Well, what Tavish is supporting is full revenue-sharing. He's saying that everyone points to the salary cap but it's not the salary cap in the NFL that gives you parity. It's money parity that gives you league parity.
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Postby Matthias » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:35 pm

byfrcp wrote:What's the big deal if the Yankees spend more money than everyone else? If you don't realize the Yankees and Royals have had the exact same record for the past 5 years, 0-5. Big difference in payroll, but the exact same record, so why is it a big deal?


Why? Because Yankees fans count it as a win only if they've won the World Series. Royals fans would count it as a win if they came within 3 games of the Wild Card.
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Postby Havok1517 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:37 pm

I didn't wanna go back and read all of the posts but did want to mention that the Yankees are a horribly run business in terms of financial return though they are typically the most successful in terms of winning. The Yankee franchise is worth more than any other baseball team as well (Forbes). If the Twins owner ever decides to spend money he is by far the richest majority baseball owner and I believe is 2nd only to Paul Allen's Seahawks in sports overall.
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