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Postby acsguitar » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:15 pm

WhiteHot wrote:
DK wrote:Nice try but without even looking I know Pud Galvin is far from the modern era. ;-)


Not a bad season in '84.

72 G, 71 CG, 12 SHO, 1.99 ERA, and a .988 WHIP.

That's approaching Liriano's level.


Dude he's sick

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Postby tianyi86 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:23 pm

acsguitar wrote:
WhiteHot wrote:
DK wrote:Nice try but without even looking I know Pud Galvin is far from the modern era. ;-)


Not a bad season in '84.

72 G, 71 CG, 12 SHO, 1.99 ERA, and a .988 WHIP.

That's approaching Liriano's level.


Dude he's sick

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Except its 1884.
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Postby BritSox » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:39 pm

What amazes me is that he's given up the fewest unearned runs in the Yankee rotation. You think that a guy who gets so many groundballs would put a lot of pressure on his defence.
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Postby acsguitar » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:45 pm

BritSox wrote:What amazes me is that he's given up the fewest unearned runs in the Yankee rotation. You think that a guy who gets so many groundballs would put a lot of pressure on his defence.


OHHHHHHHH subtle Pwn of the yankees defense...hey who's in first place??
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Postby Strasil42 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:30 pm

In 156 innings this year, Wang has induced 335 ground balls.

In 167 innings this year Webb has induced 335 ground balls.
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Postby BritSox » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:37 pm

acsguitar wrote:
BritSox wrote:What amazes me is that he's given up the fewest unearned runs in the Yankee rotation. You think that a guy who gets so many groundballs would put a lot of pressure on his defence.


OHHHHHHHH subtle Pwn of the yankees defense...hey who's in first place??




I'd have thought it likely that any defense in baseball would make more errors for a guy who puts the ball in play and makes his defenders work for the out, than for a guy who sits down a decent proportion of the guys he faces, simply by extrapolating from the number of chances.

Believe me, i'm all for pwning the Yankee infield, but how good or bad it is doesn't really explain why it yields more unearned runs with RJ or Moose on the mound than Wang.
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Postby davidmarver » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:54 pm

mweir145 wrote:I believe Wang also has gotten more ground balls than the 2 ground ball machines, Halladay and Webb.

Well, Wang has gotten more groundballs, but that's just because he strikes out less hitters. Brandon Webb and Derek Lowe both have higher GB%s.

That said, you really can't call Wang the Brandon Webb of the AL. While their GB% and IF/F% are similar, Webb is one of the best pitchers in the game. Wang, while good, has not yet entered the elite territory and his metrics really won't allow him to do so. Unless he begins to strike out hitters at a higher rate, he's allowing too many balls in play to enter Webb territory. I think he's more of an Aaron Cook, which certainly isn't bad -- actually pretty good -- but calling him Webb is a little premature.
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Postby blankman » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:38 pm

BritSox wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
BritSox wrote:What amazes me is that he's given up the fewest unearned runs in the Yankee rotation. You think that a guy who gets so many groundballs would put a lot of pressure on his defence.


OHHHHHHHH subtle Pwn of the yankees defense...hey who's in first place??




I'd have thought it likely that any defense in baseball would make more errors for a guy who puts the ball in play and makes his defenders work for the out, than for a guy who sits down a decent proportion of the guys he faces, simply by extrapolating from the number of chances.

Believe me, i'm all for pwning the Yankee infield, but how good or bad it is doesn't really explain why it yields more unearned runs with RJ or Moose on the mound than Wang.


Perhaps when he's pitching, the fielders know they always have to be ready and are thereby "on their toes" at all times.
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Postby Submariner » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:40 am

blankman wrote:
BritSox wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
BritSox wrote:What amazes me is that he's given up the fewest unearned runs in the Yankee rotation. You think that a guy who gets so many groundballs would put a lot of pressure on his defence.


OHHHHHHHH subtle Pwn of the yankees defense...hey who's in first place??




I'd have thought it likely that any defense in baseball would make more errors for a guy who puts the ball in play and makes his defenders work for the out, than for a guy who sits down a decent proportion of the guys he faces, simply by extrapolating from the number of chances.

Believe me, i'm all for pwning the Yankee infield, but how good or bad it is doesn't really explain why it yields more unearned runs with RJ or Moose on the mound than Wang.


Perhaps when he's pitching, the fielders know they always have to be ready and are thereby "on their toes" at all times.


Perhaps I like to dance around like a fairy in a red wig and glitter and swallow marbles. Or maybe Wang's just been lucky with his groundballs.
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Postby ukrneal » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:56 am

DK wrote:
BillyHallDisciple wrote:His K rate is low, but at least this year all the other results are really helping out my fantasy team big-time. I also think he's underrated. Sure, maybe he can't keep it up forever, but why nitpick about a guy with a 13-4 record and ERA in the mid-3's? Last I checked, wins and ERA still carry a ton of value in my two 12-team leagues.

I love it when people miss the boat on guys like Wang because they pick on a flaw. Adam Dunn never hits for average, but that doesn't mean you shy away from him on draft day, right? So, Wang doesn't k people. Big deal.


That's not what I mean at all. Wang's value this year has been very good - there's no denying that whatsoever. I'm talking about his value in the future. There has never - in the modern era of baseball - been a pitcher with a K rate this low who has been able to continue his success. Period. The comparison to Dunn is illogical, because players can succeed with an average of .260 - it's about average. The difference would be if Dunn only batted .190 - that's about the equivalent of Wang's K rate.

I like Wang and I hope he succeeds but at this rate, like I said earlier, he's treading in thin ice for the future.


This is pretty much true. You may find pitchers who have had one or even two good seasons with such rates, but you won't find someone who's done it more. Bill James did some sort of study on this and concluded that pitchers who didn't meet some sort of threshhold on K/9 would never be successful. I think it was around 5 or 6. It didn't have to be a career average, but at least something a rookie or young pitcher would have as it usually decreases with age. Maybe someone remembers better than I do what James was saying?

Silva is the nearest analogy and look how poorly he did this year and well last year. If his luck changes, maybe those groundballs get through for hits.
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