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Postby demoflauchy » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:45 pm

jdh wrote:All they should let Selig do is compete in the sausage race when Randall Simon is in town.


My joke was trumped... LOL :)
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:09 pm

jdh wrote:Unfortunately, it's shortsighted owners that care only about themselves and the short term (read Steinbrenner) that will prevent any more money going into the Expos.


I know that Steinbrenner does some crazy things but the Yankees pay more (by far) in luxury tax to teams such as the Expos. If they CHOOSE not to spend that money for whatever reason, how is this his fault? IMHO, the only way that the Expos will get "more money" is if:

1. They are sold
2. They are moved
3. They choose to spend money on the team

I find it strange to defend him for some of the things that he's done in the past but he made an excellent business deal in acquiring the team, cares more about winning than anyone, spends more than anyone to win, and had the balls to create his own network.

Back to the original point.......That is a disgrace that a team in contention isn't "allowed" to improve itself. What do we expect from a man that allowed an owner to sell his team to the league, buy another, and bring all of his employees with him to the new team.

Is global warming also his fault? :-D
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Postby blankman » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:22 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
jdh wrote:Unfortunately, it's shortsighted owners that care only about themselves and the short term (read Steinbrenner) that will prevent any more money going into the Expos.


I know that Steinbrenner does some crazy things but the Yankees pay more (by far) in luxury tax to teams such as the Expos. If they CHOOSE not to spend that money for whatever reason, how is this his fault? IMHO, the only way that the Expos will get "more money" is if:

1. They are sold
2. They are moved
3. They choose to spend money on the team

I find it strange to defend him for some of the things that he's done in the past but he made an excellent business deal in acquiring the team, cares more about winning than anyone, spends more than anyone to win, and had the balls to create his own network.

Back to the original point.......That is a disgrace that a team in contention isn't "allowed" to improve itself. What do we expect from a man that allowed an owner to sell his team to the league, buy another, and bring all of his employees with him to the new team.

Is global warming also his fault? :-D


I agree. Except global warming existance but thats not important.

I don't see how Steinbrenner can be faulted for the Expos not having money. If anything, he's a reason why they have more money- revenue sharing, luxary tax
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Postby jdh » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:42 pm

The problem is that right now, the vast majority of MLB teams are losing money, making buying a baseball franchise not a particularly appealing thing for most investors. Especially when that team isn't particularly good, it will have even more problems making money.

Steinbrenner and all of the MLB owners right now have to pay the operating expenses of the Expos, and will have to keep on doing so until they can either sell the team or the collective agreement clause ruling out contraction expires (in 5 years I think). If the Expos can get their franchise players (Vlad and Vazquez) under long term contact, it makes the team that much more attractive to prospective owners because they would be acquiring a team that can compete immeadiately, and would probably make it that much sooner before the team is privately owned and off MLB's books. Instead, Steinbrenner and company are too shortsighted to realize this, instead choosing to nickle and dime the hell out of the Expos, hurting MLB's ability to sell the team.

Also, they won't pay for them to increase salary because first of all egomaniacs like Steinbrenner couldn't stand the embarrasment of being beaten by a team that is at least partially financed by them, and also because they want to sign Vlad and Vazquez to their own teams. It's a conflict of interest and a mess. IMO, the operation of the Expos and decisions on their budgetary situation should be handled seperately from the commissioner's office, because the owners are in clear conflict of interest here.
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:59 pm

jdh wrote:IMO, the operation of the Expos and decisions on their budgetary situation should be handled seperately from the commissioner's office, because the owners are in clear conflict of interest here.


Agreed. Pinning it on Steinbrenner and the likes is wrong, though. This whole situation is a mess and MLB seems in no rush to sell the team although it would be in the best interest of the league to do so.
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Postby pkarr5000 » Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:33 pm

:-t
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Postby blankman » Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:14 pm

jdh wrote:Instead, Steinbrenner and company are too shortsighted to realize this, instead choosing to nickle and dime the hell out of the Expos, hurting MLB's ability to sell the team.


How so? Why should they be forced pay even more money than they already do? Can you blame them for not wanting to give away their own money?

jdh wrote:Also, they won't pay for them to increase salary because first of all egomaniacs like Steinbrenner couldn't stand the embarrasment of being beaten by a team that is at least partially financed by them, and also because they want to sign Vlad and Vazquez to their own teams.


This is stupid. If you were Steinbrenner or any other owner, would you want to be forced to pay for another team, especially if you are paying for players you hoped to sign? Of course not. I can certainly see why any owner would be upset about being forced to pay for a team. The idea that they are afraid of the "embarassment of being beaten by the Expos" is among the sadder arguements I've heard. They aren't worried about that; the Yankees just don't want to be forced to play for players, especially ones that they want, to be on other teams. I feel that this feeling is more than justified. The same goes with any other team. Should the Mets be forced to pay for the Expos to have Vlad and Vazquez? Certainly not. Its their money and they shouldn't be forced to do even more than they already do with revenue sharing and the luxary tax. Just because they have the money doesn't mean they should be forced to give it away to help the competition. Bill Gates isn't forced to pay for Apple to compete with him, and the same should go for the Yankees/Red Sox/Mets/Dodgers or any other team with relation to the Expos. Faulting George or any other owner for not wanting to pay for another team- is very sad imo. Put yourself in an owner's shoes. Would you think that its right to be forced to give away your money when you are already paying the luxary tax, which gives teams money in the first place? You certainly wouldn't.[/quote]
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Postby jdh » Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:31 pm

Well, the problem is that the MLB owners had every opportunity to contract the Expos last season before they agreed to the new collective bargaining agreement. When they signed the new agreement barring contraction, they did so in full knowledge of the fact that they would be paying to operate the Expos for an indefinite period. So yes, they should be forced to pay for the Expos to resign those players, since they basically agreed to that in averting the strike last year.
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Postby blankman » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:05 pm

No they shouldn't. According to you, they agreed to pay the operating costs, not the costs to resign big money players. Keeping the team in operation is one thing; going out and signing expensive free agents is another. You say they "basically" agreed to pay for signing free agents, but you contradict yourself earlier in the post. Again, paying operating costs- unless I'm mistaken, operating costs would mean the minimum amount to ensure that the team continues. That is completely different from paying for a team to sign expensive free agents, where you aren't just being forced to keep the team alive, but to also pay for extra players (Vlad and Vazquez are extras b/c they are FREE agents, meaning they have no connection to their former teams and are fair game for any other team to make an offer to).
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Postby jdh » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:12 pm

Agreeing to pay the operating cost does not mean you just pay for stadium lease, travel expenses, etc, you have to put a competitive team on the field. Having the league owners band together to pay for a glorified AAA franchise undermines the integrity of the league, and is a farce. If they are going to operate the team, the team should be able to be competitive.

What I think they should do is allow the Expos to have a salary that is the average salary of all 30 other teams. Give them operating expenses, plus that league average salary, then set the team into a blind trust, and prevent Selig, Steinbrenner and company from meddling with the Expos free agent signings, etc. MLB ordering the Expos to trade Colon last season was just the most ridiculous example of other owners meddling in the operations of the team.
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