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Which team will win the American League West, A's or Halos ?

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Postby Mr Irrelevant » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:32 am

Go Mariners. Beltre for MVP.
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Postby Laean » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:53 am

A's wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
A's wrote:
buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:If the Angels show up, their rotation should be deadly. Weaver and Lackey are an amazing 2/1, and Colon and Escobar are great #3/#4 pitchers. Saunders is a decent enough #5. Vlad alone makes that lineup tough, and they have speed guys around him in Izturis, Figgins, etc. The bullpen is tough with Shields and K-Rod, and even Donnelly is pretty good.

Rangers should come in 2nd. Decent bullpen actually, even without Cordero, but lack of experience down there could hurt them. Top of the rotation is Ok, about as good as the As without Harden. Lineup should come around, especially Tex and now the addition of Carlos lee

As in my mind are 3rd. They have a rotation worse than the Angels (even with harden), and their lineup is mediocre at best. The bullpen is ok. They can field though, the As. That's really the only advantage they have.


Let me addresss some things to you Athletics haters, first of , the angels do have the best rotation wait let me say did have, colon is injured and will need time to get to his old way. Angels bullpen isn't as good case proven with Shields struggles as late and his their best reliever, f. rodriguez is good though.

Texas doesnt have the pitching to win, they do have a good offense . so they are exploitable

I like the mariners a lot, they are a balanced team, speed and power, with good pitching
But the A's own them this season, sweeping them twice

The angels are the team they were in the start of the season, we would of swept you guys if it weren't of blanton's errors.

A's will win


And you aren't the least bit biased?

The Angels still have a very good rotation, even without Colon. John Lackey might be the best starting pitcher in the entire division. Jered Weaver is extremely impressive thus far. Escobar and Santana are better options than any other 4/5 combo in the West.

It is true that the Angels have a weak offense, but Oakland has been much worse...scoring approximately 35 runs less than the Angels.

You say that Texas has a good offense but no pitching, so they are exploitable. On the other hand, Oakland has pitching but no offense...but they are not exploitable? Sure they are. Texas has scored 548 runs compared to Oakland's 479. Not to mention the fact that Texas was the only to to bolster their roster at the trade deadline, by acquiring a proven slugger in Carlos Lee, who will further impact their team, and exploit the gigantic gap between the offenses of themselves and the A's/Angels.

I'm not discounting Oakland. I think they have a very good shot at the division. But it is nowhere near as certain as you make it seem. Right now, I'd pick the Angels. On the other hand, I'm liking Texas more and more based on how their offense looks, and how they've been playing lately. The truth is, the division is a crapshoot. I wouldn't be surprised to see any of them win it. Just because people say the Athletics have weaknesses, doesn't mean they are 'hating' on the A's. It means that the A's have weaknesses, just as everyone else in the divison does.

Saying that the A's will win, as if it's a certainty makes you look foolish. It is far from such.


I am an A's fan, so yes I might be biased but if you look over Oakland offense, first of all we have not had Bradley in our lineup consistently. We have 2 hitters Thomas and Swisher who have more Humeruns together than any other two players combined in the division. Swisher will only get better, just sophomore jinx that he will get over. Oakland has a great offense, but injuries have plagued their good hitters, chavez forearm tendinitis and bradley's back. We have Kotsay who just got player of the week last week. Are only weaknesses are mark ellis who played good last year but seems like it was a fluke, and crosby hasn't improved since he won the AL rookie of the year. Jay Payton is good when given enough at bats. Kendall's bat has shrunk but his main purpose is too guide the pitching staff.

The angels dont have a good rotation because they have an injured ace. And a rookie, dont get me wrong rookies can be very good case proven papelbon but they will make mistakes. That's what blanton, haren went thru last year. Angels have two saunders and weaver who still need more seasoning.

And texas always fades under pressure. Just because they added wells that still gives them a weak rotation, i know because the A's traded Koronka to the rangers. Rangers will need to prove they are good if they are consistent with their offense. Consistent means going weeks with steady run production not one night 14 runs and the other 2.

It'll will be a fun division to watch same as all the other American League division's.


what are you, ten years old? you start this thread by saying you're not being biased here, then you admit that you are. and you take the best case scenario for each one of your A's and bend over backward making excuses for them, then look at the other teams in the worst way possible.

so bradley's return will offset the gain of carlos lee?

so it's a guaranteed fact that swisher will start blasting homers again?

the fact that 2 of A's hitters combined have more homers than any other 2 players is relevant to the A's being a better team ... how?

kotsay was the player of the week? wow, i guess the A's have it wrapped up then.

chavez's forearm tendenitis has been hampering him. ok. but how is that a positive for the A's from here on out when tendenitis is a lingering problem that persists throughout a season?

sorry if i'm being harsh, but i just get annoyed when people don't face the facts.

personally, i'm an Angels fan, but i don't feel the need to delude myself into looking at everything in the best way possible so that i think the Angels are solid to win the division. i honestly think it's about 50 50 between the Angels and A's.
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Postby Phatferd » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:25 am

You won the series, it's not like the Angels went into Oakland a couple weeks ago and took 3 of 4...They are pretty comparable teams and there are still 7 games to be played by both, so don't get ahead of yourself.

The fact that you can't even say the Angels have a better rotation than the A's is laughable. Haren is as good as the Angels number 3. After Haren there is nobody better than any of the other starters. Harden if healthy is very solid, but he's not.
You have no frame of reference, Donny. You're like a child who walks into the middle of a movie...
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Postby A's » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:14 pm

Listen Lameon, when I was talking about the two players thomas and swisher combined have the most homeruns is relevant to the team winning, swisher is being nominating for the Hank Ar. Award, it is for the player who was doing the best the first part of the season, more homeruns, meaning more runs, more rbi's,best OBP. then the rest of the team. Carrying the team. For example the games against the Rockies, swisher hit a homerun in the ninth inning to tie it and scored the winning run the next inning.

About the Angles rotation, only time will tell if the rotation is solid. If colon comes back healthy, then I would worry but he is just regravating the injury, harden is resting to come back fully healthy he said he will stop playing video games to recover better lol what a sport, what guy can go on without playing video games j/k, I can, because of my girlfriend, girls hate video games

And I should of known the critizicm came from an frustrated Angels fan.
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Postby michaelp » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:40 pm

The Athletics should be the team to have the American League West crown

The angels will be in close second, it will be decided in the 4 game series(A's will win) at the end of the season

Mariners and Rangers are a toss up, both are good teams, it could possibly beat the angels for second


Angels are to overrated, if they did have such a good pitching staff, why did they Ace lose their first game and their other good pitcher melt in the 6th or 7th inning. Angels fans underestimate the Oakland rotation, Blanton was playing very solid that night and only lost the game due to his own mistakes. Haren seems to own the Angels. Zito having a good year because of his contract year, and no better time then this year, so the A's were smart by not trading him, it would of been seasoncide lol, E. Loiza is inconsistent but has nasty stuff, going 6+ innings the final game of the series and only giving up 2 runs. Komine looks like he will see some more starts, after pitching very well against the Jays, Windsor is as good or better as J. Saunders, just like Street, Windsor was a dominating Closer in College, I dont know if thats going to help him as a Starter but the A's might consider converting him to a reliever not a setup man, the A's already have Calero who ever since came from the Cardinals in the Mulder and Haren trade has shined, and plus the A's have the All-star J. Duscherer who has been out with injuries but pitching good now. and he will also get innings for the role of Setup man.

It it were to come down to pitching to win the division the A's would come on top. Not because of their rotation but the whole core of the pitching.

The A's just need to concentrate on getting healthy, if they wanna win games, they need Bradley to stop being like pre 06 Garciaparra(actually he recentley got hurt), and have a consistent offense perfoming runs. Utilizing Bradley the way they have lately is smart, but they have to be careful no to overuse him.
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Postby A's » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:50 pm

michaelp wrote:The Athletics should be the team to have the American League West crown

The angels will be in close second, it will be decided in the 4 game series(A's will win) at the end of the season

Mariners and Rangers are a toss up, both are good teams, it could possibly beat the angels for second


Angels are to overrated, if they did have such a good pitching staff, why did they Ace lose their first game and their other good pitcher melt in the 6th or 7th inning. Angels fans underestimate the Oakland rotation, Blanton was playing very solid that night and only lost the game due to his own mistakes. Haren seems to own the Angels. Zito having a good year because of his contract year, and no better time then this year, so the A's were smart by not trading him, it would of been seasoncide lol, E. Loiza is inconsistent but has nasty stuff, going 6+ innings the final game of the series and only giving up 2 runs. Komine looks like he will see some more starts, after pitching very well against the Jays, Windsor is as good or better as J. Saunders, just like Street, Windsor was a dominating Closer in College, I dont know if thats going to help him as a Starter but the A's might consider converting him to a reliever not a setup man, the A's already have Calero who ever since came from the Cardinals in the Mulder and Haren trade has shined, and plus the A's have the All-star J. Duscherer who has been out with injuries but pitching good now. and he will also get innings for the role of Setup man.

It it were to come down to pitching to win the division the A's would come on top. Not because of their rotation but the whole core of the pitching.

The A's just need to concentrate on getting healthy, if they wanna win games, they need Bradley to stop being like pre 06 Garciaparra(actually he recentley got hurt), and have a consistent offense perfoming runs. Utilizing Bradley the way they have lately is smart, but they have to be careful no to overuse him.


I agree :-)
I do gotta say the Angels have good bullpen too, shields hasn't been pitching good recently but they have jc romero , who played well for the twins last year and let's not forget Rodriguez who pitched well for his save in the second game against the A's
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Postby Big Pimpin » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:04 pm

I think it's going to be whoever gets hot at the right time. It's really a toss-up and could be any of the four teams. They are all flawed, so it makes things interesting... }:-)

The Angels would be my favorite to win at the moment, just because they have the best pitching staff top-to-bottom and their offense seems to be getting better. The A's offense has been dreadful, and I don't see that turning around. And they don't have SP that scares me any more. The Rangers if they get some pitching could be scary. And my M's have definitely surprised me so far. If they could ever get some consistency out of the middle of their lineup, they'd have a shot. The pitching has been much better than I expected going into the year, and the offense has been much worse than I thought we were capable of.

It will be an interesting couple of months out west, that's for sure.

(Now if the M's could just beat the freaking A's... }:-) )
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Postby RynMan » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:21 pm

Phatferd wrote:You won the series, it's not like the Angels went into Oakland a couple weeks ago and took 3 of 4...They are pretty comparable teams and there are still 7 games to be played by both, so don't get ahead of yourself.

The fact that you can't even say the Angels have a better rotation than the A's is laughable. Haren is as good as the Angels number 3. After Haren there is nobody better than any of the other starters. Harden if healthy is very solid, but he's not.


Haren is actually only 2 points of VORP below the Angels best pitcher - Lackey, so he is actually better than the rest (if you put any stock into VORP, which I know you don't).

But other than that I tend to agree dude. That series on the weekend was some excellent baseball. The games played right there should tell everyone how evenly matched those two teams are, and that neither can confidently proclaim that the division is theirs.
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Postby DSheppard » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:17 pm

im about to write a book. Be prepared.

1st: lol @ the A's fan that said the A's have a great offense when people arnt injured. When everything is going well, the A's have a decent offense. average power, above average obp, medicore batting average

Their pitching, as of now, is well above average but not great. Their bullpen has had some shine taken off this year, and their rotation, while still good, is not the same without Harden. Yeah ive heard harden would be back in 3 weeks, but i also heard hed be back at the all star break.

The A's have to be the favorites because they have the lead and have a decent team, but its not by any large margin.

The angels. Again, at their best their offense just isnt that good. They have vlad and a lot of speed. Kendrick is a good hitter but isnt going to go off with a lot of power. He is definitely an improvement though. Rivera is a streaky hitter, but solid. If everything is working they can put up some runs, but they still just arnt going to be that good on offense.

Now their starting pitching is without a doubt very good. Lackey is ace calibur. Escobar is extremely solid. Santana, while maybey a little overrated in my opinion, is obviously pretty good. Little weaver..... i think people are counting on him too much. Hes obviously good, but come on its not like hes really a 1.5 ERA pitcher thats never going to lose a game. Hes a great rookie pitcher, but Angels fans seem to think hes a legitimate ace right now. I wouldnt be surprised if Weaver gets hit a bit down the stretch. Id love to have him on the rangers, but hes a rookie and his name isnt liriano hes not unbeatable.

Now for the rangers. Their pitching is in my opinion league average, and thats an upgrade for the rangers.

They esentially have a staff of a good #2, #3, #4 and #5. With another marginal #5.

Average to slightly below. With two decent backups in rupe and volquez, volquez is a good prospect that can help them down the stretch if someone implodes. Rupe has good stuff and is a solid #5 option if someone else goes down to injury or ineffectiveness.

That will hurt them if they make the playoffs, but with their rotation as is they do have a chance every time out, which hasnt always been the case in recent years.

On the bullpen side, theyve constructed a nice bullpen. Otsuka isnt a great closer but hes solid. Bauer has been very legitimate all year posting a sub 3 ERA. Littleton is a force against righthanders. CJ Wilson has very good stuff from the left side. Rupe has been very effective in his major league time. Mahay and benoit are the only two people im afraid to have go out there, but mahay still has decent stats and isnt put in as many close games, and benoit is the long reliever anyway.

Offense. I cant tell you how much having tex hitting again changes the lineup. It was poor in the first half. bad. But going from a 720 ops tex to the 1.000 ops tex we all know and love, and then on top of that adding Lee makes a big difference.

right now a top of the order of GMJ/Young/Lee/Tex/Blalock/Kinsler is very good for a 65 million dollar payroll, and better then the rest of the al west by a significant margin.

Not to mention Laird who is establishing himself as a top notch lefty masher from catcher. Sure its a small sample size, but look what
hes done against lefties this year. or overall for that matter.


rangers are the only team in the west to have never been more then 4 games out of first all year, i think that fact alone is enough to say that its ridiculous to write them off.

they are 6-4 against the A's, and yet A's fans seem to dismiss them.

the rangers are better team on august 3rd then they were last year. their rotation is better. Their hitting is better. Their bullpen is better.

i cant write on the mariners because i dont follow them closely enough. But obviously they arnt out of it, otherwise theyd be 15 back not 3.5 or whatever.

so yeah i wrote mostly on the rangers, but that doesnt mean i think they are the favorites. I would not argue against anyone picking the angels/A's over the rangers. They are in third after all.

But do not dismiss them. Theyve put together an average pitching staff to go along with above average hitting (much of this only coming together recently), and in a weak AL West that can be enough. If the A's or angels go on a huge run i doubt the rangers can keep up, but i also doubt the a's and angels are good enough to do that.
Last edited by DSheppard on Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby mikekim2121 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:20 pm

No love for the Rangers?
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