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What does the term "Most Valuable Player" mean???

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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:55 am

jdh wrote:Maybe if they wanted to go to a best overall hitter award, they could fairly do it by having a ballpark multiplier, based on past stats that they use to fairly compare stats. IE, make 1.25 the multiplier for Dodger Stadium, and 0.75 for Coors Field.

That way, if Helton hit 40 HR and Shawn Green hit 30 next year, Green's would work out to 38 HR and Helton's to 30 HR, based on ballpark factors.


You make some valid points but you are looking way too deep into this stuff. IMHO, ballparks and lineups and stuff like that should only be used at the end and not as a major criteria.
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Postby Madison » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:59 am

HOOTIE wrote:
jdh wrote:Looking purely at the numbers between Tejada and ARod is a little deceiving, because there's other factors in play. For one thing, Tejada put up his numbers despite having a very weak supporting cast other than Chavez, while ARod was hitting 3rd or cleanup in one of the most potent offenses in baseball. Because Tejada has so much weaker lineup protection, the numbers he put up last year are just as impressive as ARod's. Second, ARod played his home games at the best hitter's park in the AL, while Tejada played at arguably the best pitcher's park in the AL.

Since with ballpark and lineup issues taken into account, Tejada's performance was comparable with ARod's if not better


Sure Arod had a slightly better park, but i dont buy that argument. Why? Arods OPS+ was 152 to Tejadas 122. OPS+ is park adjusted. Second, NAC played a hitters park last year. The hr index was 120. 100 is neutral. Oakland hit 104 hrs at NAC to 79 away. Their opponents hit 61 at NAC compared to 62 away from NAC. Thats a combined 165 hrs at NAC last year versus 120 away from NAC. As far as lineups, Texas scored 890 runs, Oakland 884 runs, 6 less. Arod was better. He had 10 errors to Tejadas 19. Win shares incorporates defense along with offense. Arod blew the al away in win shares last year. I know i am probably alone on this, but i dont think Tejada should have been in anyones top 3 vote last year.


No, Hootie, you are not alone. I agree completely and thanks for some of the extra numbers. ;-D
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:59 am

eftda wrote:another point: can a pitcher win the MVP--- what about a closer?


Can they? Sure. Have they? Yup. Should they? Not in my opinion. I find it hard to give the MVP to someone who plays in only 80 or so innings. I believe that an MVP winner should be dominant and Gagne fits that description but the only way that he wins it is if no one else jumps out and finishes really strong. I use Gagne because Smoltz going on the DL killed any chance of him winning it.
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Postby Madison » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:03 am

Lofunzo wrote:
eftda wrote:another point: can a pitcher win the MVP--- what about a closer?


Can they? Sure. Have they? Yup. Should they? Not in my opinion. I find it hard to give the MVP to someone who plays in only 80 or so innings. I believe that an MVP winner should be dominant and Gagne fits that description but the only way that he wins it is if no one else jumps out and finishes really strong. I use Gagne because Smoltz going on the DL killed any chance of him winning it.


MVP will probably go to Bonds, even though Pujols should get it.

Cy Young? Gagne has a realisic shot at it. Especially if he breaks 57 saves and ends up with zero blown saves.
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:09 am

Madison wrote:Cy Young? Gagne has a realisic shot at it. Especially if he breaks 57 saves and ends up with zero blown saves.


I have an easier time giving the Cy Young rather than the MVP to a closer. That said, only when someone stands out as dominating (Gagne) when no one else has dominating numbers as a starter do I believe that it should go to a closer.
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Postby Madison » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:12 am

Lofunzo wrote:
Madison wrote:Cy Young? Gagne has a realisic shot at it. Especially if he breaks 57 saves and ends up with zero blown saves.


I have an easier time giving the Cy Young rather than the MVP to a closer. That said, only when someone stands out as dominating (Gagne) when no one else has dominating numbers as a starter do I believe that it should go to a closer.


I agree that it's hard to give the MVP to a pitcher, especially a closer. Funny as it is, Loaiza/Halladay/Mulder all have a better shot at the AL MVP than Gagne does in the NL. Pujols and Bonds have stood out in the NL for the MVP. The AL doesn't really have one or two guys that have really stood out this year.
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Postby wrveres » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:21 am

Lofunzo wrote:
Madison wrote:Cy Young? Gagne has a realisic shot at it. Especially if he breaks 57 saves and ends up with zero blown saves.


I have an easier time giving the Cy Young rather than the MVP to a closer. That said, only when someone stands out as dominating (Gagne) when no one else has dominating numbers as a starter do I believe that it should go to a closer.


I am beggining to think that and arguement could be made for Gange being MVP. He is just as valuable to his team as Bonds.

Put "average" closer in LA and they are not picking up Burnitz and trying to claiming Reggie. They are shipping out Beltre, Brown, Ashby. IMO ..
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Postby Madison » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:25 am

wrveres wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Madison wrote:Cy Young? Gagne has a realisic shot at it. Especially if he breaks 57 saves and ends up with zero blown saves.


I have an easier time giving the Cy Young rather than the MVP to a closer. That said, only when someone stands out as dominating (Gagne) when no one else has dominating numbers as a starter do I believe that it should go to a closer.


I am beggining to think that and arguement could be made for Gange being MVP. He is just as valuable to his team as Bonds.

Put "average" closer in LA and they are not picking up Burnitz and trying to claiming Reggie. They are shipping out Beltre, Brown, Ashby. IMO ..


But LA won't go to the playoffs, so that excludes Gagne from the MVP according to most people. 8-o

Not me though. ;-)
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:29 am

eftda wrote:another point: can a pitcher win the MVP--- what about a closer?


Yes. Pedro in 99 got screwed out of the MVP IMO.
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Postby LCBOY » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:40 pm

Madison wrote:So Arod was punished because he has better hitters around him and a better park for hitters?

I guess Oakland's fantastic pitching along with Eric Chavez didn't help the big second half streak for Oakland last year either, huh?

I'm not trying to be arguementative, I just feel like Arod was robbed last year and it seems like Pujols will be robbed this year. Irritates me when the best players get overlooked for no real reason.


But Pujols is not he best player this year so he won't be robbed.
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