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Are Catchers Meaningless?

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Postby Laean » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:21 am

yahoo ranks shouldn't really be followed. with that said:

i think position scarcity is overrated. it is more important sometimes, such as when the decline from #1 to #12 in that position is gradual (since if you got #12 then you are at a disadvantage in varying degrees to everyone else in the league), but for catchers it is not important.

the reason why it's not important is because besides mauer and vmart in the 1st tier, everyone else in the 2nd tier is pretty much the same (pudge, barrett, mccann, pierzynski, posada, varitek, loduca, hernandez, molina, johjima, estrada, etc). so if you don't have mauer or vmart, you are at a disadvantage to only 2 other teams. that's no big deal. are you going to use up a 3rd round pick on a 25 90 player (vmart) or a 20 90 15 player (mauer) instead of on a 35 110 15 player (carlos lee) just so you aren't at disadvantage to 1/6 the league?

if there were only a few 2nd tier catchers, you'd have to draft a catcher early to make sure you don't end up with a real bottom of the barrell catcher, but there's enough 2nd tier catchers in 12 team leagues that there's no need to draft a catcher early. (look at the list above, and that was without even naming the new ones like napoli, martin, willingham, etc.) the only ones you should draft early are vmart and mauer, but they go too early usually by other owners for it to be worth it for you to draft them.

honestly, i would draft mauer or vmart if they fell to me lower than 5th round probably. higher than that, not worth it. don't get me wrong, i'm not saying no catchers are ever worth it. piazza in his prime would have been drafted VERY early by me back then. but hey, piazza reached 35 homers in his sophomore year, reached 30 homers 9 times, and reached 40 twice in his career.

i mean, c'mon it's simple. 25 90 from the catcher slot is still just 25 90. it's not like stats from the catcher slot is factored by 1.5 or something. going after overall #s is better. get a 35 110 15 OF like carlos lee in the 3rd round, then get an 16 75 catcher like varitek way later. that's better than getting a 25 90 vmart in the 3rd round then getting a 25 90 OF like burnitz way later.
Last edited by Laean on Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Laean » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:28 am

INKcogKNEEdough wrote:I dont think they are worthless by any stretch of the imagination. chances are if you have two decent to good ones you are getting points where almost NOONE else in the league is getting them from.


maybe it's more important when you're in a league with 2 catcher slots, but most leagues have one. and in those leagues with one catcher slots, it's easy to have a decent catcher even way way late in the draft or FA flat out.

I went with two different strategies in two different leagues this year. Mixed League: pay for one stud and one decent C(got mauer who I overpaid for a bit at the time and IROD who I thought went too cheap to pass up) That league I am in 2nd place or 1st back and forth all year.


your one good personal experience is hardly enough to prove that that strategy is the way to go.

NL league strategy I went bargain basement.....and that is what I got very bargain and VERY basement! result: Dead last place and have been there since draft day. The results are not totally because of the catchers but they certainly have had an impact , both good and bad.


i think the fact that it was NL only league probably had a big impact. in those leagues, you probably do have to draft a catcher early since there aren't enough decent catchers to go around.

Just my Opinion,

INKcogKNEEdough


guess i'm saying maybe in NL or AL only leagues, you do need to draft catchers a little early. also, in leagues where you use 2 catchers, maybe there too. however, in mixed leagues with 1 catcher slot (which is the vast majority of fantasy baseball leagues out there), you don't need to draft a catcher early.
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Postby cakewalk5 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:35 pm

Even with two catcher slots, it's just not that important. The position is scarce, but to get a good catcher should not come at reducing your OF or 3B or pitching. Mauer to Molina might be the same difference in draft as Beltran to Hector Luna. The difference in stats dictates I take the player with the biggest upgrade.

In my NL-only auction league, I will try to draft the rest of my team. Then I will see how much money I have left to get two catchers. If I have $15 out of $280 (25 players), I know I drafted well and can overpay to get two catchers who I can start (McCann and Lieberthal this year). But I won't overpay until the rest of my team's in place.

Some other managers will take two ML catchers who never even sniff major league action for $2. That way, their BA doesn't get hurt.
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Postby byfrcp » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:51 pm

Actually the Yahoo Ranking system (Rank not O-Rank) Ranks players on a 5 x 5 standard for what they've doen over the year, so it's actually very accurate. But taking V-Mart in the 2nd round over say Jason Bay, David Wright, or Chase Utley is just stupid.

I'd much rather have David Wright and Jorge Posada than Victor Martinez and Jaque Jones (drafted at about where Posada goes).
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Postby TonyCee » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:01 pm

Drunken Rhino wrote:Yes, most catchers don't have an impact on your fantasy team. Most players will overdraft someone like Victor or Mauer (good players and definitely fantasy roster worthy) but the difference between your #3 C and #12 C in terms of production, really isn't that much. So yes, Cs are worthless IMO.


I have to disagree because a crappy catchers AVG & OBA (if you use OBA, we do in our 5x5) will kill you in Roto, so unless I pay for a top catcher, I always fill my 2 catching spots with back-up catchers who don't play much. Just IMO (like yours).
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Postby bellings » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:21 pm

byfrcp wrote:Actually the Yahoo Ranking system (Rank not O-Rank) Ranks players on a 5 x 5 standard for what they've doen over the year, so it's actually very accurate. But taking V-Mart in the 2nd round over say Jason Bay, David Wright, or Chase Utley is just stupid.

I'd much rather have David Wright and Jorge Posada than Victor Martinez and Jaque Jones (drafted at about where Posada goes).


I agree about the Yahoo ranks. It's not very good for the first month or so, because I think that it accounts for scarcity of stats and that really messes things up early in the season. But at this point, it's pretty accurate for 5x5.
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Postby jellyroll » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:40 pm

cakewalk5 wrote:Even with two catcher slots, it's just not that important. The position is scarce, but to get a good catcher should not come at reducing your OF or 3B or pitching. Mauer to Molina might be the same difference in draft as Beltran to Hector Luna. The difference in stats dictates I take the player with the biggest upgrade.

In my NL-only auction league, I will try to draft the rest of my team. Then I will see how much money I have left to get two catchers. If I have $15 out of $280 (25 players), I know I drafted well and can overpay to get two catchers who I can start (McCann and Lieberthal this year). But I won't overpay until the rest of my team's in place.

Some other managers will take two ML catchers who never even sniff major league action for $2. That way, their BA doesn't get hurt.


In one of my leagues we have 2 Catcher slots and 4 bench spots... 12 teams.. and about half the teams (including me) have an empty catcher spot. It is just worth more to rotate in an extra pitcher or spot start a position player and max out games than play Paulino or Liard.

but of course this depends on league settings and each person's team roster to determine if opportunity cost is worth the exchange.
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Postby Lime » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:08 pm

wrveres wrote:I can't believe that people that frequent the cafe still use "Yahoo Rank" .. there should be a disclaimer that you have to check off before you register. Kind of like the Terms of use.

"I will not pay any attention to Yahoo Rank" x check here.


It's O-Rank I don't pay attention to. For the most part Rank is an indication of a how a player has performed in the given season.
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