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Maddux to the Dodgers

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Postby ThatDude » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:09 pm

RugbyD wrote:
ThatDude wrote:
RugbyD wrote:I like this deal for the Cubs. gets Neifi the out of the regular lineup and Izturis is a solid enough player that the Dodgers likely wouldn't have even looked at Furcal has Izturis been healthy.


YAY! We got a guy with a career .295 OBP and .634 OPS and has a worse contract than Neifi, and we are sending them money to make it happen

They somehow managed to make their offense worse, and I didn't think that was possible. With Neifi, Cedeno, and now Izturis on the same team, we could set a record for the weakest hitting middle infield in the history of the game.


This trade makes me sick. There better be some kind of prospect involved that they haven't mentioned yet.

you're giving up on a 26-year old gold glove winner who will bat 8th anyways this quickly?


Yes, I am.

He's an automatic out on a team with the worst offense in the world. He does nothing to help us either this year or in the future.

And he won't be batting 8th, he will get put in the #2 spot. Book it.
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Postby Havok1517 » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:17 pm

What if the Cubs sign Soriano in the offseason or through waiver with an extention? Izturis @ SS should make Soriano playing 2B exceptable.
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Postby ThatDude » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:30 pm

Havok1517 wrote:What if the Cubs sign Soriano in the offseason or through waiver with an extention? Izturis @ SS should make Soriano playing 2B exceptable.


Not really, since we already had Cedeno and Neifi, both of whom hit basically the same as Izturis and do so for much less money. Neither is as good with the glove as Izturis, but neither are butchers either.
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Postby Q » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:35 pm

I'm a Cubs fan and I absolutely hate this deal for the Cubs. Let me first ask a question. Which of these two shortstops would you rather have?

Player A: .260 Avg, .295 OBP, .339 SLG, .634 OPS
Player B: .270 Avg, .299 OBP, .379 SLG, .678 OPS

It is easy to see that Player B is better. And who are these two? A is Izturis, B is Neifi. Wow, just Wow. Baseball Perspectus also rated Neifi's defense higher than Izturis' last year and is getting paid less.

This is just another terrible move in a long process of Jim Hendry dismantling the organization that was once very promising when he took over in 2003. Basically we just traded for Neifi Perez 2. How does that help? We've seen how bad that worked out. You say this gets Neifi's bat out of the lineup? Well yeah, but replaced with someone worse (I didnt think it was possible either). And we gave them money too!
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Postby Havok1517 » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:36 pm

I think when healthy Izturis will produce similarly to his 2004 numbers in Wrigley. Which is very good.
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Postby RugbyD » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:50 pm

ThatDude wrote:
RugbyD wrote:
ThatDude wrote:
RugbyD wrote:I like this deal for the Cubs. gets Neifi the out of the regular lineup and Izturis is a solid enough player that the Dodgers likely wouldn't have even looked at Furcal has Izturis been healthy.


YAY! We got a guy with a career .295 OBP and .634 OPS and has a worse contract than Neifi, and we are sending them money to make it happen

They somehow managed to make their offense worse, and I didn't think that was possible. With Neifi, Cedeno, and now Izturis on the same team, we could set a record for the weakest hitting middle infield in the history of the game.


This trade makes me sick. There better be some kind of prospect involved that they haven't mentioned yet.

you're giving up on a 26-year old gold glove winner who will bat 8th anyways this quickly?


Yes, I am.

He's an automatic out on a team with the worst offense in the world. He does nothing to help us either this year or in the future.

And he won't be batting 8th, he will get put in the #2 spot. Book it.

nothing about this year matters and he probably will bat 2nd often this year b/c cedeno is still developing, but Ronny is likely the long-term #2. its interesting to see automatic values assigned to someone who is only 26, had a decent season as a 24-year old, and was out of baseball for a while b/c of injury.
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Postby Old_Style » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:49 pm

maybe next year when izturis turns the magic age of 27 he'll produce...oh yeah, he'll be a FA after the '07 year too...add those two together and he should be one of the top middle infielders next season ;-D ;-D ;-D
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Postby Gang Green » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:26 pm

With Maddux in the Dodger rotation, is Billingsley the definite odd man out?
I could be wrong in what I'm saying but I'll be dead before I realize it.
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Postby gforce1124 » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:38 pm

i dont know why, but his trade really annoys me from all sides. i've been reading these posts and cant believe it. i'm a met fan, so totally detached from this, but i dont know what the dodgers are doing nor do i understand how ANY cub fan can be upset over this.

cubbie fans, i understand that you're not thrilled about the offense of izturis, but who cares? getting anyone in their 20s for him in remarkable in my opinion. maddux is 40 and will not help them this season anyway. why let him pitch and take innings away from young arms? also, someone mentioned they couldnt believe the cubs would pay the dodgers in this deal. well, by my logic that's hardly an issue. maddux makes $9 mill this season and izturis makes $3.2 mill. that means they're due roughly 3 million and 1.06, respectively. when you factor in the $2 mill they're paying to LA, its basically a wash. so why not get a younger player who can progess and at the same time let a young arm get big league experience? not bad chicago.

and what is LA thinking? they're not gonna make the playoffs anyway. maddux certainly wont help them. he did well in april when his arm was fresh, but guess what, he's 40 and has been 4-11 since that month. opponents have hit over .300 off of him and his era has been 5.77 since then as well.

and the fact that people are considering picking him up for their fantasy team is even more laughable. after looking at his recent numbers, expecting a whip below 1.3 and a era below 4.5 is foolish. and no matter what his final whip and era are, his k rate (5.35 per 9) sucks. if your pitching is that bad that those numbers actually help your squad, you'd still be better off picking up whatever WW chump is playing the pirates, cubs or d-rays.....you'd get more wins that way at least. but either way, you're not winning your league.

you know why i think LA did this deal? to make money. try to convince me that this wasnt a sheer business decision. i'm sure they reason that part time fans will hear the name greg maddux and get excited. they'll probably come to the ball park when he pitches, either to see this supposed deadline savior or just tell their kids they saw the great greg maddux pitch once. hell, they might even buy a bag of peanuts while they're there. then when they don't make the playoffs, management can save face with the fans by saying "oh well, we tried...hey, we traded for a pitcher with 327 career victories, what else do you want??"

LA shouldve taken the opportunity to trade away a bad contract or stockpile some more farm system talent. i loved today, the trade deadline is great, always providing excitement. but the crazy media pressure always suckers a bunch of owners to make ill-advised moves that hurts their club in the long run. its just sad to me that this sport has so few clubs that are actually concerned with winning. this sport is so broken, how can we not have a salary cap? how can we let overseas players sign with the richest team? how can we allow half the league to cheat by taking drugs? i love baseball anyway, but it could be so much better.

when will teams realize that if you want to win championships, you have to produce from within your own organization. thats how the yankees did it in the 90s. thats why i applaud the angels for not caving at the deadline. thats why i think maybe the marlins are the smartest organization of all, by recognizing their limitations and gutting a team they know can't win. hell, i'll take a world series victory for my mets every 5 years or so.

and speaking of the marlins, thats really the only team i could think of that should've traded for maddux. then they could've used his help to make their young stud arms progess a little faster. if i were the dodgers, i'd make him my pitching coach. sorry if this became a rant far longer than expected, but am i totally off base, or does any of this make sense?
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Postby ThatDude » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:02 pm

gforce1124 wrote:cubbie fans, i understand that you're not thrilled about the offense of izturis, but who cares?


Because the Cubs have quite possibly the single worst offense in baseball. Dead last in runs scored (30-somthing behind the D-Rays) and only Oakland has a worse team OPS. Did this trade address that problem in the slightest? Not even close.

Instead, we got Izturis, who is a worse hitter than Neifi Perez, and is due nearly twice the money next season. So it makes no sense to trade for this piece of crap when we've already got a slightly better piece of crap that makes less money. Where is the logic in that?


As for dealing Maddux, that's not the part I'm upset with. I figured it would happen, and I wish him the best. But to trade him for a player that not only doesn't fill a hole, but makes the hole deeper, is just plain stupid. It would have made more sense to keep Maddux and take the consolation draft pick from the team that signs him in the offseason. At least then we would have got something of value.
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