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Postby mak1277 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:30 pm

Whether or not the DRays are smart of stupid for keeping them in the minors is absolutely moot.

These kids are spoiled brats....they deserve to have their butts kicked for saying what they do. Who are they to talk about their bosses like that. It's appalling to me.
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Postby J.C.Fighter » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:50 pm

See mak1277, you're on the outside looking in

If you was them you would be saying the same thing...
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Postby mak1277 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:17 pm

J.C.Fighter wrote:See mak1277, you're on the outside looking in

If you was them you would be saying the same thing...


That's absolute BS, no offense. I disagree with my bosses all the time, but I don't rip them publicly. Being pissed and complaining to your friends/family is one thing, but complaining like this publicly is appalling. Why bite the hand that feeds you. It's a symptom of the sense of entitlement that people in their late-teens and early-20's have now. The kids my firm hires out of college are the same way. It's depressing.
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Postby Ryno23 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:17 pm

scr wrote:I wonder why Andrew Jones was promoted at 19? Why was Miguel Cabrera promoted at 19?

I don't remember either of those showing their rear-ends, shooting off their traps, getting in trouble with the law off the field, or throwing bats at umpires, but it could just be my bad memory.
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Postby Padsin05 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:19 pm

Hey BJ why dont you learn how to field a grounder

Hey Delmon why dont you not throw bats at umpires

start with those 2, plus all the problems Dukes has had and then you can come back and bitch
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Postby Smileyman9 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:41 pm

SCR - the 25 thing wasn't meant as a justification that all minor league players should be called up at 25, more so a statement that they've held guys down for much much longer - I wasn't very clear where I was going with that statement when I wrote it. Some players can handle being called up (Crawford & Baldelli have been up for how long? I think they both turn 25 in a few months).

I never even mentioned Hollins as being a reason for anyone to be held back (Dear god no, if he's the reason why I think I should go see about taking over in RF) I tend to think he's lucky to be on a roster - let along getting consistent playing time. I merely stated that at the start of the season they had ample OF presence with no reason to start Delmon in the majors until they decided whom was sticking with the team, and whom was being traded away. Upon Huff's departure I immediately figured Delmon was getting the next callup - only two things make sense for his not being promoted, one is that bat incident the second involves not starting his service contract.

I've only paid attention to baseball for maybe the past 4 years, so I'm going with what I vaguely recall but after the Marlins won the World Series, didn't they have issues the following season filling the stadium (Yes, I know one of the years they sold off the entire squad -I'll be damned if I can recall which, as I said I've only really started to watch again in the past 3 or 4 years...before that I was a hockey guy)

So I guess I disagree that bringing them up signfincantly helps with attendance because it's a tourist region - and a lot of people down there are pre-occupied with college sports - no time for the baseball unless the Yankees or Mets are in town (darn transient NYers :) )

If a team of hot prospects brings in the people - the Marlins should be selling out every game this season.

Not sure what to tell you about Delmon, his being down to start the season was most likely a combo of many things - again the full OF and perhaps they wanted him to get some more experience in the minors. So I really still don't see mis-management where you do - someone was the odd man out, may as well be the guy you have no intention of trading as you try to trade off one of the extra pieces you do have.

The sad part about the situation is that Delmon is very talented - I just wish he'd learn to not talk to the media..vent to a teammate, vent to a family member, a friend....anybody but a person with a pad and pencil.

I totally disagree with your Upton argument since they asked him if he'd move and he chose NOT TO. Otherwise the OF is full, I don't know the defensive differences in second to SS, but anyway he reluctantly moved to third based on the fact that it was "temporary" and that it'd get him promoted to the majors in the next few weeks - as opposed to who knows when. Right now, it's tough to say what approach the GM will take since he had intended to give Upton the call this week, I will say that if he doesn't get the call, Upton will have ruined my chance at making a run at SB in an attempt to win my league for the first time...making me very very sad, not good for the smileyman.

As for defensive lapses at SS I responded in another thread that Mr Derek Jeter also had quite a few defensive lapses in the minors - turned out fine in the majors - yet another situation where things got mucked up, I think Lugo over-performed at SS - the Devil Rays never saw that production coming and thus the temporary filler at SS became someone more steady then the guy he was holding the spot for (especially since Sweet Lou didn't really handle rookies misplaying routine grounders to SS)
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Postby Smileyman9 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:46 pm

(As for trading for frontline pitching...would you trade a frontline pitcher for Huff or Gathright? Steve Philips isn't GMng anymore, otherwise I'm sure they would have made a killing)
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Postby win it all » Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:00 pm

Smileyman9 wrote:(As for trading for frontline pitching...would you trade a frontline pitcher for Huff or Gathright? Steve Philips isn't GMng anymore, otherwise I'm sure they would have made a killing)


I'm assuming your talking about the Kazmir fleecing?...Let's not mistake Phillips, who just likes to spend the owners money on high priced has-beens (Big Mo, Burnitz, Robby Alomar) from Dan Duquette, who is single handily responsible for why the Mets are going after Barry Zito right about now!
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Postby scr » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:09 pm

Smileyman-thanks for the response. I can tell you my observation is that attendance was better at the beginning of the year-when we were a bit more exciting, than now. I don't think it has as much to do with the tourists as it does with the product on the field. Now that we completely suck (today's performance notwithstanding), it's like a ghost town at the Trop.

I stand firmly behind my financial projections. My real job has everything to do with finance. I pretty much have a clue when it comes to that stuff. A really smart GM could turn this thing around in a hurry. Everything sells in America, if you do it right. Marketing, marketing & more marketing.

delmon is in a no-win situation here. If he doesn't talk to the media, he gets ripped even more by those jokers with the pen and pad. The folks that get on here and pound him would pound him again if he said nothing. He's in a no-win situation.

Management's response to the latest article was as unprofessional as it gets. Can you picture Torre saying what Madden said about his players? Could you picture Cashman saying what Friedman said about his players?

If this happened in Columbus (Yankees AAA), Steinbrenner would have very quietly sent one of his boys out from Tampa to give a little talking to. My guess is those kids would never, ever open their mouths again. But then again, if this was NY, these kids would be up, starting right now. Either that or they would have been traded and starting for any other MLB team, except for my Rays.

Management had to know these kids were manipulated by the writers. They had to know this. By responding in the fashion in which they did, they simply fed the beast. The reporter got a nice pat on the back for starting another little tempest, the newspaper sold a few more papers, and the team was the sucker.

I fear that this situation has gotten way out of hand. Delmon's career, at this point, as well as BJ's, is in serious jeopardy. Management is so bent on showing that they will dominate these kid's psyches, I fear that they will toil in the minors until their contracts expire.

I blame management because THEY should no better. I hold them to a higher standard of conduct than a couple of 20 somethings. The frustration falls squarely on the fans, while management continues their patchwork/guesswork style of running/ruining a franchise.

I never thought I'd wish Steinbrenner was running the D-Rays.
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Postby Snakes Gould » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:48 pm

i havent really seen any intelligent things in this entire thread but i side with the devil rays...the GM is new this year so all the past problems cant be blamed on him. upton isnt up because of his defense plain and simple. its not for any other reason or saving money. delmon isnt up because he did one of the most outlandish things ive seen in awhile (sans the pacers pounding on the fans) and elijah dukes really should just keep his mouth shut considering he probably doesnt even have a future with the d-rays.


p.s. you might not want to drink around drunk or possess illegal substances either..
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