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B.J. Upton (Merged)

Postby Ryno23 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:52 pm

Tampa Tribune
Said Upton to USA Today: "I can't believe I'm still here."

Said Dukes: "Those guys up there [in the majors] shower in Evian. Here, we use sewer water."

Said Young, who frequently has been outspoken in his criticism of the organization that drafted him No. 1 overall in 2003: "I don't know what they're waiting for. They're what, 30 games out of first place? They think we're going to mess up their clubhouse chemistry. B.J. should be up there. What are they waiting for? They always have excuses."

"It's pretty clear how they feel," Friedman said. "I think it shows a lot of disrespect toward the game and the achievement of becoming a major-league player. The whole article is something we take great exception to."

"I don't know what qualifies people, at any age, to disrespect anybody in the manner that that article indicated to me," Maddon said. "It speaks to disrespect, and it speaks to the sense of entitlement that the athletes seem to have today and I totally disagree with."

Upton, who moved to third base from shortstop this month, might feel the most immediate effect from the appearance of the article. He was on track to be promoted to the majors as soon as Tuesday.

Friedman didn't indicate one way or the other whether the article would affect how soon any of the three players would be promoted, and left open the possibility of disciplinary action.

"It's too early to say," Friedman said.

He did, however, indicate in no uncertain terms that the organization has had enough of this kind of thing from its top minor-leaguers.

"The development on that [character] end is equally important as the physical side," Friedman said. "It's incumbent upon us to nurture that process. We bear some responsibility here, but at the same time, I think the subjects in the article do as well."

I guess Upton won't be up next week now.
"Actually, we get individual scrubs from the trainers," Wigginton said. "I go back there and I sit in a big Jacuzzi and [trainers Paul] Harker and Ronnie Porterfield give me a sponge bath."

:-D
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Postby dyuen87 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:40 pm

When your top prospects rip your organization, you know you're doing something wrong. :-t

They're treated like garbage. They've paid their dues, they've earned their chance. Now let's see them.
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Postby tinfoilxtouch » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:25 pm

Good for these guys.

TB is a minor league club taking up space in the majors. I'd be pretty mad if I was drafted by a team that would never give me a chance to compete for anything, then didn't even get the chance to play for the club. Hell, these guys would be called up by now on playoff ball clubs.
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Postby joselnceldran » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:26 pm

I disagree...thats whats wrong with sports today...players that feel they bigger than their organization. I dont care how good you are if the team that is paying you says your not ready then shut up work hard and prove to them your ready then they'll move you up. I wanna see them in action like every1 else but whinning like a bunch of kids (especially after being suspended for most of the year!) showes they arent ready.
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Postby joselnceldran » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:28 pm

If they were in playoff ballclubs why in the heck will they call them up? they ALReady in the playoffs without them...especially with that attitude.
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Postby Smileyman9 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:37 pm

I've argued the point a million times -

1) TB is a small market team - therefore they can't just call up minor league players at a whim without it costing them money in the long run.
If you were the GM of that team you'd be smart to do what they're doing.

2) Upton & Young are really the two well known guys here, neither of them is old - Gomes was 25 I think before he got called up.

3) Start of the season, unless people have forgotten already TB had a logjam in the OF...and as a result that overflowed to the IF where Huff found himself placed.

4) Uptons defense is poor, he should use his energy to figure out how to improve himself there before complaining anymore.

5) Pure hypothesis here on my part but I would suspect had Delmon not gone and gotten himself suspended, he would have been called up by now.

6) Dukes I don't think is in the longterm plans of the Devil Rays given they have Crawford and Baldelli occupying the other two OF slots...Unless Dukes plays first base too - in which case who knows what the excuse is for not bringing him up other then maybe to not upset Delmon/Upton for having someone else called before them.
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Postby scr » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:40 pm

I can not imagine this happening in any other organization.

Taking the parent/child approach, Madden seems to be insulted, as does Friedman.

What's unspoken is the (broken) promises made to these young men.

I have no doubt there will be no way that Upton and Young will not bolt at the end of thier service time. They are clearly enourmously frustrated. I would like to know, however, the exact question that was asked of them, and how it was asked to prompt those responses. Makes good copy and sells papers, but I got a feeling these guys were set up in the tone and leading nature of the question to prompt such responses.

I wonder why Andrew Jones was promoted at 19? Why was Miguel Cabrera promoted at 19?

Other organizations can keep their kids enthused-other organizations can promote their kids at younger ages-what is wrong with the Rays. It CAN'T be just these kids. Friedman admitted some culpability ("we bear some responsibility"), and it seems to me that the FO is started to really take the heat for keeping these kids down there. Let's face it, the fans want to see these kids play in Tampa.

Ironically, the least offensive remarks came from Young, the poster boy for bad attitude.
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Postby joselnceldran » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:01 pm

I wanna see them in action especially young...but i dont think upton ready in terms of defense...
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Postby scr » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:17 pm

Smileyman9 wrote:I've argued the point a million times -

1) TB is a small market team - therefore they can't just call up minor league players at a whim without it costing them money in the long run.
If you were the GM of that team you'd be smart to do what they're doing.

2) Upton & Young are really the two well known guys here, neither of them is old - Gomes was 25 I think before he got called up.

3) Start of the season, unless people have forgotten already TB had a logjam in the OF...and as a result that overflowed to the IF where Huff found himself placed.

4) Uptons defense is poor, he should use his energy to figure out how to improve himself there before complaining anymore.

5) Pure hypothesis here on my part but I would suspect had Delmon not gone and gotten himself suspended, he would have been called up by now.

6) Dukes I don't think is in the longterm plans of the Devil Rays given they have Crawford and Baldelli occupying the other two OF slots...Unless Dukes plays first base too - in which case who knows what the excuse is for not bringing him up other then maybe to not upset Delmon/Upton for having someone else called before them.



Smileyman, please, I beg you-do the math.

The Rays are a small market team. I'm telling you, they stand to lose much more doe by keeping these kids unneccessarily toiling in the minors.

1. The GM is NOT SMART for keeping them down. The club is losing money bigtime right now. The only thing that will save them is the payroll tax that teams like the Yankees will pay the league as a function of their payroll. Assuming these kids are the real deal (a big assumption), I am convinced the Rays will draw 10K more fans per game after they market these kids. Taking 30 home games this year, that equates to 300,000 more fannies in the seats. (Look at Minnesota last night-the main attraction-Liriano-sold out that stadium last night. You want to see the difference one player can make-look there. I know you will say the Tigers had something to do with it, but I would argue those fans came out to see 'The Franchise', Mr. Liriano). That's 300,000 extra fans for the rest of the year. If we assume the avg seat generates 50 bucks in total revenue, at 300,000 times 50 bucks, we come up with 15 million bucks in additional gross revenue for the franchise. Assuming a 30% variable cost application to revenues, you've got a net profit to the franchise of 10 million bucks this year alone. I figure the franchise loses net profits of approx. $ 333,333.33 per home game these kids stay down on the farm. I can therefore conclude, over the course of a season, the franchise stands to lose $ 27.3 million dollars with this present approach.

How is this at all, remotely, considered good general managing???


2. By your logic (promoting at age 25), Andrew Jones, Miguel Cabrera, Liriano, Verlander, and about 250 more MLB stars should still be in the minor leagues. Leaving a player down in the minors until age 25 costs the franchise (see calculation above) hundreds of millions of dollars, not to mention the terrible ill-will created and fostered with the player that will result in 2 things-not keeping any player after their service time is up, and not having a hope of signing any stud free agents after the season is over. Again, a terrible way to run a franchise.

3. As stated on numerous threads already, I don't think anyone can seriously argue that Damon Hollins represents any material barrier to major league service time. I mean, where not talking Albert Pujols here. Huff (who should have been dealt last year) is gone, as is Joey Gathright. Rays management should have traded these guys for some front line pitching. That would have been smart management.

4. Smart management would have put Upton in a position to succeed, i.e., finding a position he could actually do well at, instead of insisting he play shortstop-where we already have a potential all star in Lugo. You know, like moving Upton to 3B at the BEGINNING of the year, or even last year.

5. If Young would have been up already if not for the "incident", then bring him up now-since he's served his time. Otherwise, it really does sound like just excuses.

6. I actually agree with you about Dukes.
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Postby Prooks25 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:18 pm

joselnceldran wrote:I wanna see them in action especially young...but i dont think upton ready in terms of defense...

Neither was/is Rickie Weeks and half the other infield prospects that get called up. If your bat is good enough, teams usually call you up and give you a chance to work out your defense in the majors. Tampa is just plain old cheap and should be contracted.
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