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Am I the only one who doesn't care about MVP and Cy Youngs?

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Postby Splendid61 » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:53 pm

Coming to grips with Jered Weaver having no chance of winning the Cy Young this year?




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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't care about MVP and Cy Youn

Postby The Big Stick » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:56 pm

johnsamo wrote:To me, the only trophies and awards should be for teams, divisional titles, Pennants, world Series...

ROY, MVP, CY.... It;s part performance, part geography, part politics, part personality... I don't know why people get worked up about it. The numbers are noted for the record. If a pitcher goes 25-2, a 2.00 ERA and 250Ks. does he really need a trophy? Everybody knows he kicked ass that year. We could stlll use the term a "Cy Youngish" year, but what's the point really. Especially MVP. what is that? THe best player or the most valuable player to his team?


I am not for or against individual awards. Having said that I do like to see players who are deserving carve there names in history. That is as much part of sports as the game itself.
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Postby 1337_Dude » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:25 pm

I like them. I don't always agree with who wins, but a lot of the times it can lead to some great debates.
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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't care about MVP and Cy Youn

Postby Matthias » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:49 pm

The Big Stick wrote:
johnsamo wrote:To me, the only trophies and awards should be for teams, divisional titles, Pennants, world Series...

ROY, MVP, CY.... It;s part performance, part geography, part politics, part personality... I don't know why people get worked up about it. The numbers are noted for the record. If a pitcher goes 25-2, a 2.00 ERA and 250Ks. does he really need a trophy? Everybody knows he kicked ass that year. We could stlll use the term a "Cy Youngish" year, but what's the point really. Especially MVP. what is that? THe best player or the most valuable player to his team?


I am not for or against individual awards. Having said that I do like to see players who are deserving carve there names in history. That is as much part of sports as the game itself.


that's how i feel. it says something that clemens has won 6 cy's. and it's a nice little reference. if there was no individual awards, you may or may not know who had a cy young-quality year in 1974, but if you're a stathead, you know who won the cy young.

that said, i like the cy young better than the mvp simply b/c of how the mvp gets voted. you can almost never make it if you aren't on a playoff team, which is just wrong. mvp = the player, at the end of the year, every manager would have said they wanted on their roster that year. but that's just a quibble with the mvp award itself.
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Postby Los_Dodgers » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:41 pm

I believe that the only ways players should be able to carve their names out in history is through statistical performance. The MVP and Cy Young both bother me greatly, because I believe that statistics should decide everything, and statistics that the player controls. For example, wins should not be the determining factor in the voter's decisions. It embarassed me that Clemens didn't win the Cy Young last year merely because the Astros couldn't score runs. He didn't lose it because of his own performance, but because of Lance Berkman's underachieving and Jeff Bagwell's injuries. The MVP as well should go to the best overall player, not the one who plays on a winning team. A guy that plays on a bad team but puts up outstanding stats is even more commendable in my book, because he did everything minus the protection he would get in a solid lineup.

Overall theme of argument: The league needs to start making individual awards more based on statistics than demographics and things of that nature, or stop calling them individual awards because there are numerous influential factors that help decide these awards that don't directly correlate with the player's performance.
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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't care about MVP and Cy Youn

Postby The Jury » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:28 pm

Madison wrote:
johnsamo wrote:Especially MVP. what is that? THe best player or the most valuable player to his team?


The MVP is the Most Valuable Player Period, to me. Doesn't matter where the team finishes. First or last is irrelevant for me when it comes to deciding who I think is the Most Valuable Player in the game, for a given year.

Others disagree with that, and that's cool as we all have opinions (be pretty boring if everyone agreed on everything), but there's what the MVP should be in my opinion.


How is any player on the last place team valuable? With or without that player, the team sucks.

As for these awards, I don't care for most of the awards that are voted on by the press or by fans. Fans blow the All-Star game voting every year (see Victor Martinez). The Hall of Fame is too public relations heavy, and irrelevant statistics are used in Cy Young voting. Voting, when done by poorly educated people with regards to what they are voting for, is stupid.
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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't care about MVP and Cy Youn

Postby Madison » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:29 pm

The Jury wrote:
Madison wrote:
johnsamo wrote:Especially MVP. what is that? THe best player or the most valuable player to his team?


The MVP is the Most Valuable Player Period, to me. Doesn't matter where the team finishes. First or last is irrelevant for me when it comes to deciding who I think is the Most Valuable Player in the game, for a given year.

Others disagree with that, and that's cool as we all have opinions (be pretty boring if everyone agreed on everything), but there's what the MVP should be in my opinion.


How is any player on the last place team valuable? With or without that player, the team sucks.


What does the team sucking have to do with anything? Is it the batter's fault if his team's pitching stinks (Ala Arod a few years ago with the Rangers)? Of course not, and he should not be penalized for something beyond his control.

Regardless of that simple fact.....

Player X hits .355 with 54 home runs, 148 RBI, 132 runs, and 10 steals while on a last place team.

Player Z hits .335 with 48 home runs, 136 RBI, 126 runs, and 5 steals while his team wins the division.

Which player was better and has the most value? Player X, so Player X should get the Most Valuable Player in the league award. The award is not named "Most Valuable Player to His Team", it's the "Most Valuable Player in the League".

Team standings has absolutely nothing to do with who the best player in the entire league is. None at all.
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Postby schafedog » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:37 pm

I think the awards are very important, its the best player and the best pitcher, I really like the Cy Young cuz when pitchers dominate its just an awesome thing to watch
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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't care about MVP and Cy Youn

Postby The Jury » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:50 pm

Madison wrote:
The Jury wrote:
Madison wrote:
johnsamo wrote:Especially MVP. what is that? THe best player or the most valuable player to his team?


The MVP is the Most Valuable Player Period, to me. Doesn't matter where the team finishes. First or last is irrelevant for me when it comes to deciding who I think is the Most Valuable Player in the game, for a given year.

Others disagree with that, and that's cool as we all have opinions (be pretty boring if everyone agreed on everything), but there's what the MVP should be in my opinion.


How is any player on the last place team valuable? With or without that player, the team sucks.


What does the team sucking have to do with anything? Is it the batter's fault if his team's pitching stinks (Ala Arod a few years ago with the Rangers)? Of course not, and he should not be penalized for something beyond his control.

Regardless of that simple fact.....

Player X hits .355 with 54 home runs, 148 RBI, 132 runs, and 10 steals while on a last place team.

Player Z hits .335 with 48 home runs, 136 RBI, 126 runs, and 5 steals while his team wins the division.

Which player was better and has the most value? Player X, so Player X should get the Most Valuable Player in the league award. The award is not named "Most Valuable Player to His Team", it's the "Most Valuable Player in the League".

Team standings has absolutely nothing to do with who the best player in the entire league is. None at all.


The most valuable player is not simply the one who puts up the best stat line at the end of the year. You could call that player the most "outstanding player" because he outproduced everyone else in the league, but there is more to value than simple stats. Leadership on and off the field and defence are two valuable aspects.

A player's value is not only in his statistical contribution, but also his influence on his teammates.
[quote:4fef447375="Geek"]The odds of the AL MVP coming from the American League are looking pretty good.[/quote]
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Postby The Big Stick » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:58 pm

As a society we need to measure these things. The way we go about measuring them, may not be entirely fair but, if we did, measure the so called individual awards, we would not have debates such as this one. Which means sites like this and announcers, beat writers, fans of these various sports, players or teams would not have much to talk about. If it were not for these award, how boring would sports be for those who are not die hard number fanatics?

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