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Postby rmande09 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:37 pm

Do people completely ignore the word "potential?" They must. I'm not saying Delmon will or will not put those numbers up. I'm saying that is his potential, his ceiling. Delmon could be a .280-15-10 guy, who knows. I'd predict he'd be a lot better than that, as would any other scout, but who knows.
C: Pierzynski
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3B: Miggy
SS: HanRam
OF (x3): CarGo, M. Bourn, D. Jennings
UTIL (x2): E. Encarnacion, C. Hart
BN: Cuddyer, C. Ross, J. Montero

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Postby Snakes Gould » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:42 pm

rmande09 wrote:Do people completely ignore the word "potential?" They must. I'm not saying Delmon will or will not put those numbers up. I'm saying that is his potential, his ceiling. Delmon could be a .280-15-10 guy, who knows. I'd predict he'd be a lot better than that, as would any other scout, but who knows.


how about you direct your comment to me, no need for the "some people" smart ass comment.

well its pretty stupid to word it as he could do it in 2-3 yrs. is albert pujols potential .360-75-170 ???? because that really is his ceiling but no. everyone says albert is .330-40/45-130 machine....its silly to go to the extreme limit. and if you're saying delmon is a 40-40 candidate, why not say 45-45???or 50-50??? all im saying is that you are over hyping these youngsters way too much. you said gordon was going to hit .310-40-120(or something like that in the next few years too in the other thread. with that being said, im done arguing about this because you just always feel that your opinions are factual, when indeed they arent. but hey maybe they are facts considering you're the phantom baseball insider :-° ;-7
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Postby Chicago RedSox » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:51 pm

houstonoilers wrote:whats the minimum to claim a 5-cat guy

.280avg. 100r 25hr 80rbi 30sb ????


I think Rios has the potential to put numbers like that up for a couple seasons...
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Postby rmande09 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:58 pm

Snakes, that last post, the one you quoted, was not directed at you. It was at the other guy.

I'm just stating the guys ceiling. It's been noted that Delmon has legit 40-40 potential, and he could reach it QUICK (if he reaches it) because he is so well-developed. I'm not even posting an OPINION here, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I'm just stating his ceiling, which is determined by baseball scouts and analysts, which I guess is opinion.

I also gave Gordon's ceiling. He is often compared to David Wright, and if that comparison is a good one, is .320-40 really that surprising?

As far as comparing him to Pujols, in terms of fantasy value: If Delmon reaches his ceiling, he will be #1 above Pujols. You can't deny the 40 swipes. Did I predict that this would happen or give my opinion? Nope. Just stated that if Delmon put those numbers up it'd certainly be close.

Want my opinion? I think Young will be a 30-30 guy in 2008. I'm not sure if he'll ever reach 40-40, but if he's going to, he better reach it early. With his size and frame, I think he's going to lose that speed slowly but surely as he ages. I think Gordon will be a mirror image of David Wright from the left side. Guarantees, facts? Nope, just my opinion.

Oh, and as far as you mocking my job: I'd appreciate it if you'd stop. I choose to keep my actual job title and location private, and if you can't respect that, then screw you.
C: Pierzynski
1B: Pujols
2B: Altuve
3B: Miggy
SS: HanRam
OF (x3): CarGo, M. Bourn, D. Jennings
UTIL (x2): E. Encarnacion, C. Hart
BN: Cuddyer, C. Ross, J. Montero

SP: Price, Gallardo, T. Hudson, Lester
RP: Chapman, Jansen, Rodney, Putz, Cishek, Bailey
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Postby rmande09 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:07 pm

RedSox, good hit on Rios.
C: Pierzynski
1B: Pujols
2B: Altuve
3B: Miggy
SS: HanRam
OF (x3): CarGo, M. Bourn, D. Jennings
UTIL (x2): E. Encarnacion, C. Hart
BN: Cuddyer, C. Ross, J. Montero

SP: Price, Gallardo, T. Hudson, Lester
RP: Chapman, Jansen, Rodney, Putz, Cishek, Bailey
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Postby Snakes Gould » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:34 pm

rmande09 wrote:Snakes, that last post, the one you quoted, was not directed at you. It was at the other guy.

I'm just stating the guys ceiling. It's been noted that Delmon has legit 40-40 potential, and he could reach it QUICK (if he reaches it) because he is so well-developed. I'm not even posting an OPINION here, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about.



a ceiling is indeed an opinion ;-7

thats the only thing ill respond to, im really not trying to get into an argument over something as silly as this..
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Postby The Loveable Losers » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:37 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:
rmande09 wrote:Snakes, that last post, the one you quoted, was not directed at you. It was at the other guy.

I'm just stating the guys ceiling. It's been noted that Delmon has legit 40-40 potential, and he could reach it QUICK (if he reaches it) because he is so well-developed. I'm not even posting an OPINION here, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about.



a ceiling is indeed an opinion ;-7

thats the only thing ill respond to, im really not trying to get into an argument over something as silly as this..


I've got to agree with you. I saw people saying that Ryan Howard had 60hr power before this season started. Yeah, maybe he has the ability to hit 60hr's if the planets align, the sky rains blood and the DRays win the World Series - but it's not likely to happen. It's much more useful to project a player's likely ceiling than his nearly impossible one.
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Postby rmande09 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:46 pm

That's why I posted both. And I'd say Delmon is much more likely to join the 40-40 than Howard is to hit 60. I think (again, opinion) will steal 40 quite a few times in his early years considering his speed, ability to steal, and the way they love to run. But the homers are in question. Everything is there but he just needs to put it together. Three homers in 200+ ABs at AAA is not impressive, though he is just 20 and put up great power numbers as an 18 and 19 at A and AA.

A ceiling is an opinion, but it is an opinion of a lot of scouts. He is ranked #1 on most prospect rankings because of his ridiculous talent and projection.

I don't get why people get so defensive. I simply state an opinion and said IF he reaches that opinion (IF), Pujols may have some competition.

I also gave Delmon's likely ceiling, which is 30-30. Is that OK or would someone like to flip out about that, too?
C: Pierzynski
1B: Pujols
2B: Altuve
3B: Miggy
SS: HanRam
OF (x3): CarGo, M. Bourn, D. Jennings
UTIL (x2): E. Encarnacion, C. Hart
BN: Cuddyer, C. Ross, J. Montero

SP: Price, Gallardo, T. Hudson, Lester
RP: Chapman, Jansen, Rodney, Putz, Cishek, Bailey
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Postby The Loveable Losers » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:56 pm

rmande09 wrote:That's why I posted both. And I'd say Delmon is much more likely to join the 40-40 than Howard is to hit 60. I think (again, opinion) will steal 40 quite a few times in his early years considering his speed, ability to steal, and the way they love to run. But the homers are in question. Everything is there but he just needs to put it together. Three homers in 200+ ABs at AAA is not impressive, though he is just 20 and put up great power numbers as an 18 and 19 at A and AA.

A ceiling is an opinion, but it is an opinion of a lot of scouts. He is ranked #1 on most prospect rankings because of his ridiculous talent and projection.

I don't get why people get so defensive. I simply state an opinion and said IF he reaches that opinion (IF), Pujols may have some competition.

I also gave Delmon's likely ceiling, which is 30-30. Is that OK or would someone like to flip out about that, too?


The problem comes in when you examine prospects based on their absolute ceilings that only 1% of them could ever hope to reach while at the same time evaluating major league players based on their actual production. You'll end up with a roster of all minor league players if that's the criteria you use to examine players since all of the top prospects have great potential - otherwise they wouldn't be top prospects. You have to balance that though by their likelihood of reaching those targets.

There's nothing wrong with throwing out numbers like 40/40 with Delmon Young. I just wouldn't call it something as ambiguous as a 'ceiling' since there's a likely ceiling (probably 30/40 in Young's case) and a pie in the sky ceiling (40/50) that he has very little chance of seeing. Even 30/40 isn't anywhere near guaranteed but it's more in line with what people usually consider as a ceiling - the best performance that the player is likely to be capable of reaching.
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Postby SlightlyStoopid » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:05 pm

What's up with the Youngs. Chris Young is currently patrolling CF for Arizona's AAA team. He has 30 hr 30 sb potential easily and can hit around .280 He can be a 5 tooler easy.
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