The Artful Dodger wrote:True, Vince and Mach parted ways on bad terms, much like with Bret, but who knows what the reason was. There's this underground rumor that Macho Man once had taken sexual interest in Stephanie back when she was a teenager, but all that is unfounded speculation, I suppose.
As for Bret, I don't think we'll see him in the ring again also. The history of concussions and the fact he suffered a stroke diminishes his chances to take on an in-ring role again. Bret still harbors substantial disdain for Shawn Michaels too and I'm not surprised that he'd probably not want to do any more further on-camera work with him. I don't blame Bret at all for feeling that way.
I had heard this rumor that he may have had a sexual encounter with her when she was much younger but this notion seems to be dismissed. I did hear that Stone Cold and Lilian were involved in casual heavy petting for a time. Heavy petting being understated when dealing with Stone Cold.
The Artful Dodger wrote:With Smackdown being nothing more than a "B" show, it needs Kennedy more. RAW simply has a lot more star power (HHH, HBK, Cena, Edge, et. al.). Trips and HBK don't want to work Tuesdays and so a transition to Smackdown is a very remote possibility, but it's a good idea to balance out the rosters more. On top of that, Smackdown should tap into a larger audience once the WB and the UPN merge as one as The CW this September.
I dont think there will be a balance. Like I said, Kennedy wont be moving yet due to the injuries/suspensions. HBK is tentatively scheduled for surgery after Summerslam so that will be a chance for Carlito I believe.
The Artful Dodger wrote:Yeah, the leprechaun under the ring bit for the last couple of months hints at it just because it seems endearing, but I think a continued Finlay/Lashley feud will work better for the Smackdown brand, which hasn't had a long-running, heated in quite some time (i.e. Rey Rey vs. Eddie Guerrero last year). Finlay is better as a hard-nosed, traditional heel.
It's not a matter of wants anymore, it's a matter of need. There are only like 16 active wreslters on SD with Henry, Angle, Lashley, Khali, Big Show, Kid Kash and others that are either in ECW, hurt, or suspended. Maybe Norman Smiley will make an appearance. Saw Mr. Wiggles on TNA and he's still got it. Anyway, Finlay wasn't scheduled to be a face but so be it.
The Artful Dodger wrote:The funny thing is that ECW once had a tag team called the Pitbulls in the mid-90's and the premise of the gimmick was there, but it wasn't Noble and Kash of course. They had these heavyweight brutes (one who would remind you of Rhino and the other I guess the Warlord of the WWE circa early 1990's) who were simply referred as Pitbull #1 and Pitbull #2.
My boss made the same comment.
The Artful Dodger wrote:Nice. Personally, I never liked Michael Cole as a play-by-play announcer, but he's made some strides in sounding less predictable. Meeting Taz(z) and Foley has to be a highlight for any wrestling fan.
It's not that I necessarily love COle on the air but he's a play-by-play guy like me so I respect him. Plus he's been really nice to me since I started. He's bigger than he looks in person and little known fact, has a Harley Davidson looking emblem tattooed on his forearm.
The Artful Dodger wrote:Good to know you finally figured out what a smark is. Vinnie Mac thinks we're the scum of the earth though.
I can't consider myself one just yet because I still find myself sometimes rooting for the face and against the heel. Like for instance I dont like heel announcers, so JBL just annoys me whereas most people really like him.
I want to add one more thing: The more I think about it the stronger I feel about a point I made months ago. Remember when we all talked about who should be in the new DX if they were expanding the stable? I said Shelton benjamin and now I think it is more true than ever. He's probably one of the better if not best superstars in all of the WWE both athletically and technically. In fact, he carried that match with John Cena about 3 weeks ago when Edge was commentating that I found myself really enjoying (finally) one of Cena's matches. Of course now that I re-watched the tape today it was clearly because of Shelton. And since he's as bad on the MIC as he is good in the ring, they should have made him part of DX, and let him train with two of the best so he could improve. MIC skills are a thing that can improve dramatically. In-ring skills take a long time to improve. I really think Benjamin would have benefitted a ton from HHH and HBK rather than havging a go at it on his own. He's currwntly brutal to listen to.
BTW, meeting TAZZ and FOLEY was an experience I'll not soon forget. Hopefully there are more stars to come.
Forget the man crush. I drop what I'm doing to watch Zack Greinke pitch.
perlick29
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perlick29 wrote:I can't consider myself one just yet because I still find myself sometimes rooting for the face and against the heel. Like for instance I dont like heel announcers, so JBL just annoys me whereas most people really like him.
I consider myself a bit of a smark, but I still mark out for my favortie wrestlers and moves, nothing wrong with that. It's just the way we are. People like to see the "good" guy beat the "bad" guy.
perlick29 wrote:I want to add one more thing: The more I think about it the stronger I feel about a point I made months ago. Remember when we all talked about who should be in the new DX if they were expanding the stable? I said Shelton benjamin and now I think it is more true than ever. He's probably one of the better if not best superstars in all of the WWE both athletically and technically. In fact, he carried that match with John Cena about 3 weeks ago when Edge was commentating that I found myself really enjoying (finally) one of Cena's matches. Of course now that I re-watched the tape today it was clearly because of Shelton. And since he's as bad on the MIC as he is good in the ring, they should have made him part of DX, and let him train with two of the best so he could improve. MIC skills are a thing that can improve dramatically. In-ring skills take a long time to improve. I really think Benjamin would have benefitted a ton from HHH and HBK rather than havging a go at it on his own. He's currwntly brutal to listen to.
I think the boat has sailed on anyone joining DX, but I do agree they need to give Shelton someone who can talk for him. It's amazes me how often a guy will come up and just be brutal on the mic. I think talking is almost as important as being able to wrestle. Look at a guy like Cena. He would have a hard time wrestling his way out of a paper bag, but he can work that crowd and that's gotten him over (although he had lost the crowd towards the end of his title reign).
The Artful Dodger wrote:Yeah, the leprechaun under the ring bit for the last couple of months hints at it just because it seems endearing, but I think a continued Finlay/Lashley feud will work better for the Smackdown brand, which hasn't had a long-running, heated in quite some time (i.e.Rey Rey vs. Eddie Guerrero last year). Finlay is better as a hard-nosed, traditional heel.
It's not a matter of wants anymore, it's a matter of need. There are only like 16 active wreslters on SD with Henry, Angle, Lashley, Khali, Big Show, Kid Kash and others that are either in ECW, hurt, or suspended. Maybe Norman Smiley will make an appearance. Saw Mr. Wiggles on TNA and he's still got it. Anyway, Finlay wasn't scheduled to be a face but so be it.
Yeah, that's what kind of strain the brand extension of '02 has had on the roster (splitting what was originally 30+ to approximately 15 wrestlers for each brand) and it has become more complicated with ECW in the picture. As a die-hard ECW fan, the ECW brand making a return is more or less nostalgia because Vince would still place his fingerprints all over the brand. Old mainstays such as Sabu, Tommy Dreamer, and Sandman won't be utilized correctly and that's what's happening right now. Not only that, it would make popular headliners like Angle, Big Show, and RVD branch away from the certain glamour of either main WWE brand. That's why I think WWE is always under pressure to develop the talents in OVW and other farm wrestling associations quickly to promote them into "the big leagues".
All this new blood is great, but you have quite a range here. You have the up-and-comers like Carlito, Johnny Nitro, Shelton Benjamin, John Cena, et. al. but you have a ton of aging veterans like Undertaker, Kurt Angle, and Ric Flair who more or less make seasonal appearances these days. Shawn Michaels is still one of the best in-ring performers out there, but in a few years, the torch will have to be passed somewhere down the line, and soon. Triple H has become quite stale and hence, the DX resurgence. WWE needs to get a veteran like Edge, who isn't necessarily ground-breaking, but has a history (8 years in WWE) and has plenty of molding. It will take a lot more time to mold the likes of Lashley, Benjamin, Carlito, and even Orton and Cena in my opinion into superstars, but then again, it's a tough act to follow when it was only 6 years ago, The Rock and Stone Cold were so damn big that they had notoriety in popular culture in the ways Hulk Hogan did.
perlick29 wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:Good to know you finally figured out what a smark is. Vinnie Mac thinks we're the scum of the earth though.
I can't consider myself one just yet because I still find myself sometimes rooting for the face and against the heel. Like for instance I dont like heel announcers, so JBL just annoys me whereas most people really like him.
Just because you root or "mark out" for a face, doesn't necessarily mean you're not a smark. It's just that some smarks root for heels at times when they find something absolutely annoying about a babyface. Take for instance The Rock and John Cena. Some smarks reviled them for having a "5-move moveset" because it seemed they only knew 5 moves in the ring and had nothing else to provide which was of substance.
Remember that the word, smark generally means that I know how the business of pro wrestling works and that I'm aware of what goes down backstage. Some folks in the business take that connotation further and say that smarks are purists and only care for wrestlers that can put on a good match. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean we like the same wrestlers, of course. Some smarks tend to be hardcore marks and are avid fans of RVD and Sabu, like myself. There's another segment of smarks who hate spot artists like RVD and Sabu and would rather watch old matches of Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid, as an example of what "real wrestling" is all about. They tend to be Ring Of Honor fans by the way, where ROH normally features "pure wrestling" with a lot less emphasis on gimmicks and more into the psychology, stiff spots, holds, quick pacing, deliberate pacing, with an emphasis on mat wrestling other than showy, aerial stuff or gratuitous hardcore spotfests. But ROH sometimes features some gory matches (Homicide vs. Steve Corino) at times and even had a run with Combat Zone Wrestling (CZW), which is basically ECW on steroids. But I digress.
Personally, I think JBL is MONEY as color commentator. Most color commentators tend to be over-the-top and he's way over that. He's refreshing in a way with all the analogies he makes.
perlick29 wrote:I want to add one more thing: The more I think about it the stronger I feel about a point I made months ago. Remember when we all talked about who should be in the new DX if they were expanding the stable? I said Shelton benjamin and now I think it is more true than ever. He's probably one of the better if not best superstars in all of the WWE both athletically and technically. In fact, he carried that match with John Cena about 3 weeks ago when Edge was commentating that I found myself really enjoying (finally) one of Cena's matches. Of course now that I re-watched the tape today it was clearly because of Shelton. And since he's as bad on the MIC as he is good in the ring, they should have made him part of DX, and let him train with two of the best so he could improve. MIC skills are a thing that can improve dramatically. In-ring skills take a long time to improve. I really think Benjamin would have benefitted a ton from HHH and HBK rather than havging a go at it on his own. He's currwntly brutal to listen to.
I think with the direction Vince is taking with DX, which is more like an annoying amateurish PG version of DX, Shelton really isn't a fit. I tend to believe he's better on his own and developing his character that way, but it's just that Vince nor the writers have a clue on how to do that. Clearly, the "Momma's Boy" gimmick bombed. I believe Shelton should go to ECW because Paul Heyman had and has a knack for attaching a believable gimmick on someone. Case in point: Sandman had a lame, lame surfer gimmick back in the classic ECW, but Heyman turned him into an antisocial freak who was incredibly over with the fans. Sandman was a fairly lousy in-ring performer, but his M.O. gave him credibility as a superstar.
The funny thing is Paul hasn't really molded a pure athlete like Shelton into a gimmick most fans could identify with or believe. Case in point: Jerry Lynn, who was a fantastic cruiserweight mat worker and technical wrestler. That's why Paul threw him into a series of matches vs. RVD and of course, he really shined...and that was how Jerry Lynn got over with the fans. I see Shelton Benjamin being more of a fit with ECW than I see him in a stable like DX. He's just the kind of performer who is more likely to gain credibility with the fans with his in-ring performance, more so than a gimmick. Then again, the ECW product is shown in front of a general Smackdown audience, again, it's the mainstream WWE fan base, which probably won't appreciate Shelton's workrate as much as the true ECW fan base would.
BTW, I'm excited about C.M. Punk's debut on ECW on Sci-Fi. Punk has a relatively fresh gimmick, that of a straight-edger, and is just the kind of boost ECW needs. Brilliant in-ring and mic worker too. I'm looking forward to C.M. Punk becoming a household name, much like he was in ROH.
The Artful Dodger wrote:BTW, I'm excited about C.M. Punk's debut on ECW on Sci-Fi. Punk has a relatively fresh gimmick, that of a straight-edger, and is just the kind of boost ECW needs. Brilliant in-ring and mic worker too. I'm looking forward to C.M. Punk becoming a household name, much like he was in ROH.
According to my sources, Punk will imeediately become top heel on ECW.
As for your other comments. Some I agree and others I'm not totally on board but thats why they are opinions.
Like with Edge, he is far and away the best heel we have. On the other hand you mentioned smarks generally love Sabu and RVD. I dont necessarily get all the love for him. Dont get me wrong I liked him, but he hasn't been a decent spot artist in a pretty long time, (innuendo) and he really only has like 10 move moveset. Again that's opinion but I understand the love for Sabu, not for RVD.
CZW I am now familar with so I get what you're saying. It can get bloody.
I also agree that Benjamin would make a good ECW product with Heyman, and that the WWE is to OVW what the Royals are to september: All their prospects get called up.
There is one thing that there is absolutely no debating though: The MIZ sucks. I guess I've become somewhat of a smark now that I actually work for the company.
Forget the man crush. I drop what I'm doing to watch Zack Greinke pitch.
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perlick29 wrote:According to my sources, Punk will imeediately become top heel on ECW.
No surprise to me. On a side note, they should bring back the ECW World Television Title.
perlick29 wrote:On the other hand you mentioned smarks generally love Sabu and RVD. I dont necessarily get all the love for him. Dont get me wrong I liked him, but he hasn't been a decent spot artist in a pretty long time, (innuendo) and he really only has like 10 move moveset. Again that's opinion but I understand the love for Sabu, not for RVD.
Watch the old ECW matches, namely, RVD vs. Jerry Lynn, primarily Living Dangerously '99 and Hardcore Heaven '99. I think RVD is either past his prime or his style is rather out of whack with what the WWE currently employs or that the quality of opponent isn't as good as a Jerry Lynn or a Lance Storm. I believed back when WWE hired RVD five years ago, that he isn't a fit for WWE and he'll never be that way. RVD normally uses chairs in his arsenal, has some high-flying moves that WWE generally will allow to only some extent, and back in ECW, he had an expanded arsenal. He even had a Mexican Surfboard where after a while, he would lift the opponent in the air, and drop his opponent, with the back of the head/neck area smacking a steel chair. RVD also used occassional power and submission moves at times. In ECW, RVD had more liberty to do what he wanted in the ring, and the same goes for other ECW workers and you'll see that in indies like ROH, CZW, and TNA. But WWE is too structured. Even Sabu will never be a fit in the WWE style.
You also have to understand that ECW fans treated RVD as if he were the Hulk Hogan of the promotion. He would have long introductions where he'd be simply high-fiving fans and it would take like at times, 10 minutes. Before an ECW event, the house would be packed 2 hours beforehand just chanting "RVD! RVD!" You kind of have to be an ECW mark to understand or get into the hubbub of what RVD is all about.
perlick29 wrote:There is one thing that there is absolutely no debating though: The MIZ sucks. I guess I've become somewhat of a smark now that I actually work for the company.
HOOOOO-RAH!!!! Is it just me or does the Miz look a lot more bulked up than he was on Tough Enough 3?
The Artful Dodger wrote:HOOOOO-RAH!!!! Is it just me or does the Miz look a lot more bulked up than he was on Tough Enough 3?
Yeah, that's nothing. You should have seen him when he made his debut on the real world. He was a twig.
As for RVD, he was great no doubt. But you're right: circumstances combined with him losing a step, and being a constant marijuana user have taken their toll and he'll not get back to his cult like status.
Forget the man crush. I drop what I'm doing to watch Zack Greinke pitch.
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The Artful Dodger wrote:HOOOOO-RAH!!!! Is it just me or does the Miz look a lot more bulked up than he was on Tough Enough 3?
Yeah, that's nothing. You should have seen him when he made his debut on the real world. He was a twig.
Never watched the Real World, but one night, I was watching Fear Factor: Reality All-Stars, and lo and behold, there's Miz going nuts on most of those stunts and was just ripped. I was thinking to myself, "I remember him being just a scrawny little thing". Daniel Puder could've taken him to the pasture any day. Too bad Puder never panned out for the WWE though.
The Artful Dodger wrote:Watch the old ECW matches, namely, RVD vs. Jerry Lynn, primarily Living Dangerously '99 and Hardcore Heaven '99. I think RVD is either past his prime or his style is rather out of whack with what the WWE currently employs or that the quality of opponent isn't as good as a Jerry Lynn or a Lance Storm. I believed back when WWE hired RVD five years ago, that he isn't a fit for WWE and he'll never be that way. RVD normally uses chairs in his arsenal, has some high-flying moves that WWE generally will allow to only some extent, and back in ECW, he had an expanded arsenal. He even had a Mexican Surfboard where after a while, he would lift the opponent in the air, and drop his opponent, with the back of the head/neck area smacking a steel chair. RVD also used occassional power and submission moves at times. In ECW, RVD had more liberty to do what he wanted in the ring, and the same goes for other ECW workers and you'll see that in indies like ROH, CZW, and TNA. But WWE is too structured. Even Sabu will never be a fit in the WWE style.
You also have to understand that ECW fans treated RVD as if he were the Hulk Hogan of the promotion. He would have long introductions where he'd be simply high-fiving fans and it would take like at times, 10 minutes. Before an ECW event, the house would be packed 2 hours beforehand just chanting "RVD! RVD!" You kind of have to be an ECW mark to understand or get into the hubbub of what RVD is all about.
RVD used to put on some great matches, but now when you watch him he's a shell of what he used to be. I think his years of smoking have finally gotten to him. He'll gas way to early in the matches and that combined with his lack of a move set makes for some pretty disappointing matches. Of course, I was never the worlds biggest RVD fan. I was always more of a fan of Sandman, Tazz, and the Eliminators.