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Postby rjforlife » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:51 am

about jered weaver:

By DOUG TUCKER, AP Sports Writer
July 23, 2006

"We sat around and talked about it afterward," Mark Teahen said. "He's not throwing anything up there we haven't seen. Not great stuff. But he makes his pitches, works both sides of the plate and he's got a little deception with that turn he's got. He's kind of throwing across his body. I feel like I saw him all right. But he's hot right now."


despite living in vegas where most angel games are on TV, i still havent seen the kid pitch. my question is, can he continue to thrive in the majors? teahens comments make it sound like hes just an average pitcher, that he may be a Nomo kind of guy where his quirky delivery fools hitters for a while, but he doesnt have the stuff to suceed once the deception wears off.

so to those that have seen weaver pitch, does he truly have the stuff to be a star, or is he doomed to mediocrity at best, ala Jeff.
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Postby rjforlife » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:55 am

sorry about the new weaver thread.......i didnt realize the liriano thread got hijacked in favor of weaver. still feel free to respond here, maybe a few fresh opinions on him would be nice.
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Postby go_jays_go » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:08 am

Teahen can say whatever he wants. Weaver continues to get the job done each time he steps foot on the hill.
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Postby MMoNeY24 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:31 am

I don't know that I'd take comments from a .265 hitter too seriously, but the vibe I got when he was coming up was that he wouldn't be this good. I don't think I would be going out on a limb by saying his 0.79 WHIP will go up with his ERA will following, but I won't doubt that he's a good pitcher until proven otherwise.
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Postby johnsamo » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:46 am

Guys used to say that about Greg Maddux early on. If you just watch an inning or two the first thing you think is "Why aren't they hitting this guy?".... But inning after inning, it becomes obvious: location and change of speed. He can hit the corners, inside outside, up, down at varied speeds. I've watched every game but today, and only once did I ever see him throw a pitch over the heart of the plate. He puts it where it can get hit, but not very well. So he gets a lot of ground outs and fly outs. If you're a good hitter or if a runner is on base, he adds a few more pitches that are nastier, but for average hitters with nobody on, he tries for contact outs. That means he gives up the occassional single that way, but odds are the defense gets you out. If he gets two strikes on you, he'll throw nastier stuff to go for a strike out... He rarely gets into hitter counts, but even if he does, you can't sit dead red on a fastball. He can throw any pitch for a strike, and for a hitter, that's a huge disadvantage. Hitters get most of their best hits off of fastballs down the middle on hitter's counts. He doesn't give you that.
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Postby johnsamo » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:54 am

That's why he snuck up on people, he doesn't have a Verlander fastball or a Liraiano slider.... The location and change of speed baffled college hitters, but scouts love that awesome pitch, and since Weaver doesn't have one, they just always assumed, well, these are college kids. He has to have an out pitch to be a stud in the show, but in reality, every pitch is hit out pitch because as a hitter, you're just guessing if you sit on a pitch, there's no tendency or pattern to what he's throwing because he's confident he can throw any of them for strikes.
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Postby The_Met_Threat » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:35 am

When you hear this is the census in an MLB clubhouse... "He's not throwing anything up there we haven't seen. Not great stuff." You know Weaver's due for an implosion.
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Postby johnsamo » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:33 am

Well who knows, but what's been said in locker rooms and what's happening on the field are worlds apart.

You don't need killer stuff to win if you can hit your locations and change speeds. It's the absence of the great pitch that's making people think this is a fluke, but as Lenin once said, Quantity has a quality all its own.

Weaver has 9 pitches.

1 - changeup (82-84 MPH) usually low and away, sometimes high and away, occassionally inside to induce a foul or pop up.
2 - a fast changeup that's (87 MPH). I've seen him throw it a few times (always an outside corner) and it really throws off hitters timing, they think fastball, then slow the bat down thinking it's a change-up or vice versa (but it isn't either) He only throws this to non-power hitters.
3 - a 90 to 92 two seamer fastball (good lateral movement)
4 - a 90 to 92 four seamer fastball
5 - a 94 to 95 four seamer fastball that he rarely thows and usually throws high and inside, seems faster than the radar gun says because of his change up and looks like the regular fastball but it breaks less has more giddyup as it reaches the plate.
6 - 86ish slurve, with a 2 to 8 with a big break that he either throws high and drops it down for a strike or low and breaks down into the dirt.
7 - a 90ish slurve that has the same 2 to 8 break, but less break on it and looks like a fastball to the last second.
8 - a 86ish side-arm slider with a lot of 3 to 7 break on it that looks like a strike then breaks low and away.
9 - a 90 to 91 side arm fastball that doesn't dip so it almost looks like a rising fastball.

None in and of itself is an amazing pitch, but that he can locate all them is and feels confident to throw them at any count for a strike at any location makes it really hard on hitters because sitting one on pitch, your odds of seeing it are low even if it's a hitters count, and because it's not over the heart of the plate, you rarey get good wood on it even if you guess right. With a Verlander or a Liriano, as good as the are, you can sit on the fastball or the slider becuase you know it's coming, but with Jered, anything could be coming at any of the corners.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:39 am

he already had shoulder tendinitis right? That delivery is really scary looking. I didn't think injury would be that big of a concern short term because he didn't have an injury history. But my concern was whether his delivery will continue to be "deceptive"
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Postby Apollo » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:41 pm

I wonder how the catcher manages to put down signs for all 9 of those pitches. :-b

He was projected as a good third starter for a long time. I don't really think he's going to keep this up, but I'll ride it while it lasts.
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