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Jeter - Great Leader? - look again

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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:53 pm

rmande09 wrote:astav said it perfectly. Jeter asked everyone to rally behind Giambi - not lay off him - because of what he was coming back from. Jeter was showing Giambi he could put his past behind him and welcome him back to the team after a tough time.

Asking the media and fans to stop ripping ARod would be childish. Every player in New York has to deal with the critics, it's part of the job. I'm sure Jeter tries to help ARod through the criticism behind closed doors, but publicly asking the fans and media to stop would probably make life worse for ARod. They'd bash him for not being able to deal with his own problems and it would magnify everything he does more than it already is.

It is idiotic to think Jeter is a poor leader for not publicly telling media and fans to lay off ARod.


Again...

What exactly was Giambi coming back from? He was coming back from the destruction he caused his body by taking ILLEGAL DRUGS.

He didn't get into a car accident. He didn't have a death in the family. He didn't come back from cancer. He took STEROIDS. Why should Jeter have to get the fans to rally behind him and not A-Rod...who did NOTHING except win an MVP and lead their team to the playoffs...only to get booed the following season after struggling a bit?

Ridiculous. :-t
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Re: Jeter - Great Leader? - look again

Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:56 pm

jvmillion83 wrote:With the handle, SonsOfSlam04 has to be a Red Sox fan trying to stir trouble. You should be worrying about ur own team instead of looking for reasons to hate on Jeter. Quotes are often taken out of context and the media loves to brainwash the public. People get boo'ed all the time; its part of the game. Jeter has his own responsibility of staying focused and trying to lead this team to October. Jeter doesn't have a responsibility to the media.


That's exactly what this thread is about. Jeter's responsibility to the media.

No, Jeter doesn't have to do this for A-Rod. But at the same token, if he doesn't stick up for his teammates, then stop calling him the great captain and leader. You can't have it both ways.

If Jeter wants to be known as the leader of this team, and the Yankee Captain, then YES, he has a responsibility to the media.

And for the record, I love Jeter. I like him 10x more than A-Rod. I dislike A-Rod's personality. That does not give me the right to unfairly bash him, though.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:58 pm

jvmillion83 wrote:Exactly, I don't know what the mantra is for other baseball markets out there, but in NYY we only care about winning and not pleasing the media. We invest heavily to bring the best resources to the organization so we can be the BEST. So if ur not contributing, you are gonna hear it from the fans. Tough luck. Everyone stepping onto this team realizes that they gotta drop their egos at the door and take criticism if necessary. If you contribute, the fans are going to love you. If ur screwing up, u will hear it. We aren't one of these organizations that is just satisfied with effort. We demand results and everyone from the top on down understands that. Jeter and everybody understands it. Its all in being a Yankee. They don't care. They only care about this tough road trip we gotta grind out in TOR and TEX b4 our next homestand.


Ok...then why hasn't Sheffield gotten booed? Why hasn't Matsui gotten booed? Why hasn't Mussina gotten booed? Why hasn't Giambi been deemed a choker? Even Randy Johnson gets more love than A-Rod does.

That's BS. None of those players won any titles for the Yankees. Yet nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. It's all about A-Rod.
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Re: Jeter - Great Leader? - look again

Postby jvmillion83 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:38 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:
That's exactly what this thread is about. Jeter's responsibility to the media.

No, Jeter doesn't have to do this for A-Rod. But at the same token, if he doesn't stick up for his teammates, then stop calling him the great captain and leader. You can't have it both ways.

If Jeter wants to be known as the leader of this team, and the Yankee Captain, then YES, he has a responsibility to the media.

And for the record, I love Jeter. I like him 10x more than A-Rod. I dislike A-Rod's personality. That does not give me the right to unfairly bash him, though.


This is my problem. How do you know what is going on in the clubhouse? How do u know the actual amount of support that Jeter has given Arod? Ever since Arod and Jeter exchanged words thru the media in like 2000, the media has been on every quote since then, looking to make stories. You have sources all around NY and outside of it, that are trying to find a way to find an Arod/Jeter feud. Like the NY Post. They write material like that all the time, the same paper reporting on page 12 that a decapitated head was found in a dumpster. Then you got ESPN out of Bristol, CT that does it the best. With their Michelle Bonners on ESPN News that twist the story "Not looking like the captain will support Arod.." The same ESPN newsgirl that flipped out on the air last year when the Yankees got a lucky break to go their way. The media tried like hell last year to cause friction between Jeter and Sheffield. But you read interviews, listen to Sterling/Waldmyn play by play, and other sources, you hear bout something totally different. You hear that Jeter, Arod, Sheffield and Bernie were spotted walking together to go grab a bite after the game.

While you get different speculations from different biased views of the media, how can you accurately speculate what Jeter is saying to Arod behind closed doors? Of course you can read all the quotes and take them out of context, but you aren't the clubhouse manager. You aren't on the Yankees charter flights. Because fans aren't there, they rely on the media for the factual information that is 100 percent. But just because hes not telling the media to lay off, doesn't mean that he isnt supporting Arod.
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Postby jvmillion83 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:46 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:Ok...then why hasn't Sheffield gotten booed? Why hasn't Matsui gotten booed? Why hasn't Mussina gotten booed? Why hasn't Giambi been deemed a choker? Even Randy Johnson gets more love than A-Rod does.

That's BS. None of those players won any titles for the Yankees. Yet nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. It's all about A-Rod.


Simple. Arod was most talented all around player in baseball with the hugest contract. When you are in those shoes, you are going to get the largest percentage of the blame from everyone if you only get 2 hits in 05 division series, or sporting a .225 batting avg coming out of a 11-14 April. Everyone raises their expectations for Arod to an absurd level, more than anyone on the team.
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Postby jvmillion83 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:50 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Again...

What exactly was Giambi coming back from? He was coming back from the destruction he caused his body by taking ILLEGAL DRUGS.

He didn't get into a car accident. He didn't have a death in the family. He didn't come back from cancer. He took STEROIDS. Why should Jeter have to get the fans to rally behind him and not A-Rod...who did NOTHING except win an MVP and lead their team to the playoffs...only to get booed the following season after struggling a bit?

Ridiculous. :-t


It was a little more than steroids. Giambi had everything go wrong. He was sick from that tumor he had. If you watch that July 1, 2004 game vs Red Sox, Giambi had an AB where he looked like he just got up from his hospital bed, swinging and missing badly against Scott Williamson. And how he couldnt hit anything at the beginning of 05, you had serious doubts that he would even be a contributor again. He has come back to be one of most valuable hitters in this offense.
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Postby mikekim2121 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:59 am

TheOmen wrote: "You're the best player in the world? Deal with it!"


During the time Babe Ruth played, he was obviously the best player in the world. Yet if you go by single season to season stats he wasnt the best every year. THe best player in the world (or one of) doesnt have to play like #1 or #2 every year, its just not possible.

Look at Roger Clemens, he's arguably the greatest pitcher alive and he's had a few seasons where his ERA was 4+. Does that mean people should talk like he sucks?
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:09 am

jvmillion83 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Ok...then why hasn't Sheffield gotten booed? Why hasn't Matsui gotten booed? Why hasn't Mussina gotten booed? Why hasn't Giambi been deemed a choker? Even Randy Johnson gets more love than A-Rod does.

That's BS. None of those players won any titles for the Yankees. Yet nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. It's all about A-Rod.


Simple. Arod was most talented all around player in baseball with the hugest contract. When you are in those shoes, you are going to get the largest percentage of the blame from everyone if you only get 2 hits in 05 division series, or sporting a .225 batting avg coming out of a 11-14 April. Everyone raises their expectations for Arod to an absurd level, more than anyone on the team.


Expectation level? Absurd contract?

Hmm. Couldn't you then expect the same things from Jeter? Jeter signed a monster deal the same year that A-Rod did. He signed a 10 year deal worth $189 million dollars. I believe he's one of the 3-4 highest paid players in the game.

An even more interesting fact is that Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter both have the same amount of World Sereis titles since they signed their contracts...zero.

So couldn't you also say that Jeter has not 'performed to expectations?' He makes $19 million dollars a year. He doesn't put up close to the numbers that A-Rod does, and he hasn't even gotten the Yankees another WS ring.

But no, A-Rod should have all the expectations on him. Jeter gets paid a ludicrous amount and hasn't won anything more than A-Rod, yet he has no expectations.

Jeter isn't to blame either...but if you're going to be critical of A-Rod, let's at least be fair about it.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:12 am

jvmillion83 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Again...

What exactly was Giambi coming back from? He was coming back from the destruction he caused his body by taking ILLEGAL DRUGS.

He didn't get into a car accident. He didn't have a death in the family. He didn't come back from cancer. He took STEROIDS. Why should Jeter have to get the fans to rally behind him and not A-Rod...who did NOTHING except win an MVP and lead their team to the playoffs...only to get booed the following season after struggling a bit?

Ridiculous. :-t


It was a little more than steroids. Giambi had everything go wrong. He was sick from that tumor he had. If you watch that July 1, 2004 game vs Red Sox, Giambi had an AB where he looked like he just got up from his hospital bed, swinging and missing badly against Scott Williamson. And how he couldnt hit anything at the beginning of 05, you had serious doubts that he would even be a contributor again. He has come back to be one of most valuable hitters in this offense.


:-b

All the health related problems were FROM the steroids. Tumors, parasites, vision problems, etc.....all side effects from steroids. WFAN read off the side effects of the drugs that were reportedly used, and everything Giambi was suffering from, was on that list.

Giambi did it to himself. He was a mess. Nobody was to blame but himself. Yet Jeter defended and supported him publicly. I'm not saying Jeter was wrong, I'm just saying he hasn't done the same for A-Rod. Again, you can't bash him for it, but you also can't credit him for being a great leader when he sits back while the team's best player gets torched by the media and fans (when he tried to put a stop to it in Giambi's case).
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:13 am

mikekim2121 wrote:
TheOmen wrote: "You're the best player in the world? Deal with it!"


During the time Babe Ruth played, he was obviously the best player in the world. Yet if you go by single season to season stats he wasnt the best every year. THe best player in the world (or one of) doesnt have to play like #1 or #2 every year, its just not possible.

Look at Roger Clemens, he's arguably the greatest pitcher alive and he's had a few seasons where his ERA was 4+. Does that mean people should talk like he sucks?



If you recall, before he won Game 4 of the 1999 WS and a few other big games, Clemens was indeed known as the guy that could not win the big game in NY and was suspectible to choking under big game pressure. Clemens sort of fought his way off that tag. Arod just digs his hole deeper and deeper every time he opens his big mouth and puts up another choking playoff performance leading to his team's elimination. All the Arod apologists can pull whatver stathead nonsense they want to try to make lead looklike gold...it will not change Arod's reputation he has so sadly earned with his choking and losing.
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