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Jeter - Great Leader? - look again

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Postby bluejkrew » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:31 pm

Why is this thread so long??

Jeter is a great leader, period. There could be PLENTY of reasons why he's not telling the fans to lay off a-rod. Comparing to all the great things he's done for the team, this has very little weight in portraying his leadership.

As for comparing their clutch performances, most people will agree that Jeter is the better clutch hitter (he DID have more playoff experience, and usually came through). However, labeling A-rod as a choker I believe is very premature, and mostly media-driven. The only time you can say he choked was his double play grounder in last year's ALDS. However, there is NO WAY that he should be responsible for the 2004 ALCS. If Mariano didn't blow the save in Game 4, the yankees would have swept and arod could have easily been the MVP for that series.

Also, many people are under the assumption that Yankee fans are stupid for booing the reignin AL-MVP. The last time I went to Yankee Stadium, fans cheered him every time he got up to bat and even chanted "LETS-GO-A-ROD". It's only afterwards when he grounds out that they start to boo. Most sports coverage programs do not mention this, and thus make yankee fans worse than they actually are.

That is all I have to say.
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Postby bigh0rt » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:39 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:Next we will hear how Jeter should switch positions to help out poor old Arod. What a laugh. I do not know which is more entertaining. Watching the Bonds apologists spin their nonsense or watching the Arod apologists try to blame Jeter and obfuscate their boy's inadequacies. Most amusing. We should really be criticizing the guy with 6 pennants and 4 rings amd praising the guy with nada...I see.

Let's see, Jeter should step up and tell all NY that Arod is Mr. Clutch and Mr. Personality and they should lay off him. Yep NY, you are all wrong. Arod is a great clutch performer who has earned his stripes in NY with his 2004 and 2005 post season performances all of which led to his team's ultimate elimination and the biggest choke job in sports history. Oh but Arod is Mr. Clean in the matter. After all, he is the golden boy with the 25.2 M dollar salary and the MVP he earned beating up on lowly teams in the regular season. We should be honored he leads his team in the playoffs to elimination and not only elimination, but epic elimination on a grand scale.

Yup, we all have it wrong. ARod is the second coming of Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig all wrapped up into one. The way he posts those tremendous regular season numbers and has never won a championship at any level is truly awe inspiring. We should bow in his presence and be honored by such talent and really beat up on the Jeter's of the team for not performing. I get it now. I mean if the statheads say Arod is great who are we to argue? Who needs pennants and championships when you can get Silver Slugger awards and AL MVPs? I mean which would you rather have? Clearly an AL MVP means so much more to us than the 0 HR and 0 Rbis in the playoffs.

In fact, Yankee fans and the NY press should be so upset that the golden boy is being roasted alive here that we should pay him more money to stay. Maybe raise ticket prices another 10 dollars and parking to 20 dollars instead of 13 with the extra proceeds going to pay poor Arod to compensate him for all the unjust heat has been given so he can fell more comfortable the next time he gets shut down by the likes of Paul Byrd and Jarrod Washburn in the playoffs. As long as those Silver Slugger awards keep a coming, we should just all shut up and let Arod be Arod and enjoy those games vs TB in May.


Wow. The fact that some people have this mentality is pretty startling. I'm gonna leave this thread, and any further conversation with yourself, alone. :-°
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Postby rainman23 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:50 pm

It's a silly debate. Those of you thinking you have some insight into Derek Jeter's behavior, pro or con, are kidding yourselves. People are a little more complicated than that; Derek Jeter certainly is. And Jeter isn't Arod's dad. It's not his job to look for people who might be giving his boy a hard time, and smoothing the path. It's a ridiculous idea. Alex Rodriguez is a grown man, and a professional. He's got to manage his own career, his own performance. The idea that Derek should have out his chemistry set, figuring out the precise balance of factors to keep Arod motivated and producing...it's silly. If your point is, he ain't no saint, a saint would have been standing up for his boy every night with the press and the fans...maybe so. Guess what, there aren't a lot of professional athletes who will eventually be nominated for sainthood. There's a pretty good chance that Francis of Assisi didn't have that competitive drive that makes athletes excel. Saint, no. Leader, yeah. I don't know what Derek's thinking, but I know what a lot of guys would think -- if Arod can't produce when the fans are a little peeved at him, maybe he won't produce 7th game of the WS, bottom of the 9th, either. And trying to shelter him from those fans isn't doing him or his team any favors.
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Postby 405z06 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:55 pm

But where would the Yankees be without Jeter's 6 home runs and mediocre defense?

What's that? Oh....yeah.....probably second place.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:08 pm

rainman23 wrote:It's a silly debate. Those of you thinking you have some insight into Derek Jeter's behavior, pro or con, are kidding yourselves. People are a little more complicated than that; Derek Jeter certainly is. And Jeter isn't Arod's dad. It's not his job to look for people who might be giving his boy a hard time, and smoothing the path. It's a ridiculous idea. Alex Rodriguez is a grown man, and a professional. He's got to manage his own career, his own performance. The idea that Derek should have out his chemistry set, figuring out the precise balance of factors to keep Arod motivated and producing...it's silly. If your point is, he ain't no saint, a saint would have been standing up for his boy every night with the press and the fans...maybe so. Guess what, there aren't a lot of professional athletes who will eventually be nominated for sainthood. There's a pretty good chance that Francis of Assisi didn't have that competitive drive that makes athletes excel. Saint, no. Leader, yeah. I don't know what Derek's thinking, but I know what a lot of guys would think -- if Arod can't produce when the fans are a little peeved at him, maybe he won't produce 7th game of the WS, bottom of the 9th, either. And trying to shelter him from those fans isn't doing him or his team any favors.


I don't think anyone is saying Jeter should have done it. But if he doesn't do it, people need to stop praising him as a great leader and captain. That's the point.
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Postby 5 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:28 pm

Who cares?

Boy...so much pub for the second best team in the Big Apple. B-)
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Postby jvmillion83 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:32 pm

bluejkrew wrote:Why is this thread so long??

Jeter is a great leader, period. There could be PLENTY of reasons why he's not telling the fans to lay off a-rod. Comparing to all the great things he's done for the team, this has very little weight in portraying his leadership.

As for comparing their clutch performances, most people will agree that Jeter is the better clutch hitter (he DID have more playoff experience, and usually came through). However, labeling A-rod as a choker I believe is very premature, and mostly media-driven. The only time you can say he choked was his double play grounder in last year's ALDS. However, there is NO WAY that he should be responsible for the 2004 ALCS. If Mariano didn't blow the save in Game 4, the yankees would have swept and arod could have easily been the MVP for that series.

Also, many people are under the assumption that Yankee fans are stupid for booing the reignin AL-MVP. The last time I went to Yankee Stadium, fans cheered him every time he got up to bat and even chanted "LETS-GO-A-ROD". It's only afterwards when he grounds out that they start to boo. Most sports coverage programs do not mention this, and thus make yankee fans worse than they actually are.

That is all I have to say.


Well said. The Yankees ran out of gas as a team in 04 ALCS, not to discredit anything that the Red Sox accomplished but they lost any kind of momentum. It wasn't Arods fault, it wasn't Jeter's fault, it was the team's fault.

I agree with the media being way too biased here on omitting that fans are actually cheering for Arod. Unlike alot of baseball fans out there, I actually go to alot of the games, and Arod gets alot of cheers. As a matter of fact, the media puts this unfair bias that the Yankee crowd atmosphere is just negative. As a matter of fact, its a fricken party at every home game if u ever been there. Yeah there have been instances where they would be down 2 runs in the 7th and Arod would strike out with a few runners on and a loud bunch of boos come on. Its part of the game. Its not like Yankee fans hate Arod. They are just unhappy at spur of moment.

As long as NESPN is residing in Bristol, CT, hiring comm majors out of Harvard, Boston College, PC, Quinnipiac, or maybe Uconn, there is going to be an anti-Yankee bias at ESPN. And anytime they have an opportunity to jump on throats of Yankee fans and the team they ARE gonna do it.
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No one in the Yankee organization has stood up for ARod

Postby SonsofSlam04 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:21 pm

The fact that NO ONE has stood up for ARod is the very reason why its become open season on ARod. To his credit ARod has said all the right things even though he getting blamed for Global Warning these days. This has gone on long enough!!! Someone should step up and show support for the best Shortstop on the current Yankee roster. Perhaps if Jeter doesnt have the common sense to say something then perhaps Mr Torre should voice team support for ARod. The Yankees need ARod to perform, what would it cost ANYONE in that organization to show some support for ARod?
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Postby rainman23 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:29 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:I don't think anyone is saying Jeter should have done it. But if he doesn't do it, people need to stop praising him as a great leader and captain. That's the point.


Well, of course they're saying that. And there's precious little distinction to your paraphrase. Since Jeter didn't do something exactly the way some of you would have had him do it, he's not a great leader. Because evidently we're all great leaders, with so much to offer Jeter if only he would listen.

Listen, Bombers, I don't want to argue with you about this. If only because I don't want there to be any confusion that I fall into Yanks' ridiculous "Achoke" camp. Jeter knows a little more about what's going on in that clubhouse than any of us. Perhaps he has a slightly better feel for what's going on with Arod than we do. Perhaps you'll admit that he knows more about being a winner and a leader in professional sports than all of us put together. Given all that, I'm willing to cut the guy a little slack, and I think it's unfortunate when I'm reading comments from smart people, good Yankee fans, who won't.
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Postby Strasil42 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:59 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:Next we will hear how Jeter should switch positions to help out poor old Arod. What a laugh. I do not know which is more entertaining. Watching the Bonds apologists spin their nonsense or watching the Arod apologists try to blame Jeter and obfuscate their boy's inadequacies. Most amusing. We should really be criticizing the guy with 6 pennants and 4 rings amd praising the guy with nada...I see.


I stopped reading your post when I saw that you include the pennants Derek Jeter has won, but not ARod.

Am I missing something, or was ARod not on the 2004 and 2005 Yankee rosters......

Stop with the hate... Pretty obvious that no matter what ARod does you won't give him credit.

You don't even give him credit for the 2005 pennant when he was the MVP of the league and without him the team probably wouldn't have won it.

:-t :-t :-t
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