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HoF Discussion: Barry Larkin

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Postby stevekahuda » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:59 am

bigh0rt wrote: to date Derek Jeter to boot.


I want to preface this by saying I'm a big Yankees hater. Jeter is far, far better than Larkin offensively. He is approaching all of Larkin's career counting statistics in 7 fewer seasons. In addition, he has a much higher average and a slightly higher OPS. The only area where Larkin would surpass him if they played the same number of years would be in SB (maybe). Larkin was a better defender, but you can count on one hand the number of guys where defense got them in if they didn't have the offensive numbers. Jeter should be first ballot (as I argued in another of your thread hort), Larkin may get in depending on voter's memories. Its just a shame that he hung around long enough to overlap with the hard hitting shortstops of today. Mattingly should not get in nor should Bernie, however I agree that Larkin has a fighting chance.
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Postby Tavish » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:41 pm

stevekahuda wrote:
bigh0rt wrote: to date Derek Jeter to boot.


I want to preface this by saying I'm a big Yankees hater. Jeter is far, far better than Larkin offensively. He is approaching all of Larkin's career counting statistics in 7 fewer seasons. In addition, he has a much higher average and a slightly higher OPS.


From this thread.
Jeter vs Larkin when they were both around the 1500 game played mark (after last season for Jeter, after 1998 for Larkin)

<pre> G AB H 2B 3B HR RBI R SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS+

Jeter 1525 6167 1936 308 47 169 763 1159 215 57 0.314 0.386 0.461 121

Larkin 1546 5708 1713 305 61 156 718 955 315 57 0.300 0.375 0.457 124</pre>



The numbers are very similar, Larkin wins SB and Jeter has the edge in BA. The counting stats would be even closer, but Jeter played on some of the best offensive teams in history which gave him a higher number of ABs/G (almost half an AB more per game over 1500 games makes a pretty big difference). Larkin was farther ahead of his league than Jeter has been. Larkin was also a much better defensive player than Jeter.

Larkin started to decline after this point, which is why I said how Jeter is judged depends on how he does from here on out. At this point it is very easy to argue Larkin was the better player on a lower profile team.
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Postby ukrneal » Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:20 pm

And I would be guessing that league averages were lower when Larkin was playing, which makes his numbers that much more impressive.
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Postby Havok1517 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:35 pm

here is something of note that most people don't know. When Larkin played, he was voted far and away the best base runner in baseball. He wasn't blazing or anything but got incredible jumps and hardly ever got picked off or thrown out stealing, stretching a hit out, or advancing. Right now, I think Beltran is the best base runner n baseball and Larkin was a lot better.
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