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How to combat roster churners/streamers?

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Postby ukrneal » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:12 am

Havok1517 wrote:Churning is, for instance, when you pick up a starting pitcher off FA on Friday when they have a start on Monday and drop him the preceeding day to waivers which blocks someone else from picking him for his start. Then doing the same thing the next day and thereafter to block the spot starter from picking up the best pitchers or those pitchers with the best matchups available. Its a sound strategy if you have the roster space and moves available. It also works really well if you if you can do it to the team you play a few days in advance.


First time I've heard the term 'streamers'. When did peopel start using that? In the past, what is being described in this thread is churning. What havok wrote above is 'illegal' by yahoo rules and most other sites and doesn't have a name i've ever heard people go by.
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Postby mikekim2121 » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:51 am

I am assuming you are trying to combat streaming (picking up starters and then dropping immediately after using them, not just to block others).

As an occasional streamer, I believe that the best way for that is to add categories like hits allowed or BB allowed. But then a problem that may occur is people loading up on closers and not using any SP's.

Adding a category that involves ratios like K/9, K/BB, H/9 may be a good solution as well.

I assume max IP is also a possible solution but I am not sure if that would be the best option
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Postby The Loveable Losers » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:06 pm

Everyone else is pretty dead-on on how to set up a league that discourages this approach.

As to how to combat it in your current league if you trust your pitching staff enough then I'd do the same thing that he's doing. As long as you have a few guys you can handle dropping then you drop them and pick up pitchers as well. Play his game against him with the advantage of a better pitching staff to support your ratios than he has.
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Postby Havok1517 » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:12 pm

ukrneal wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:Churning is, for instance, when you pick up a starting pitcher off FA on Friday when they have a start on Monday and drop him the preceeding day to waivers which blocks someone else from picking him for his start. Then doing the same thing the next day and thereafter to block the spot starter from picking up the best pitchers or those pitchers with the best matchups available. Its a sound strategy if you have the roster space and moves available. It also works really well if you if you can do it to the team you play a few days in advance.


First time I've heard the term 'streamers'. When did peopel start using that? In the past, what is being described in this thread is churning. What havok wrote above is 'illegal' by yahoo rules and most other sites and doesn't have a name i've ever heard people go by.


Its not illegal just not ethical. Its within the bonderies of yahoo rules because I did it last year against a spot starter and I did it this year against a spot starter in a public league with fantastic results. As long as you hold on to that player for a day I think its the best strategy used to combat spot starters. Are you a spot starter?
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Postby schmidty » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:13 pm

After the league has been formed, like others have said, there's not much you can do. I would say just play your game -- it would be a mistake to drop a player worthy of being on your roster (who someone else might pick up from waivers) just to play the churning game for a week. Yeah, it doesn't seem fair that a team with a horrible pitching staff will go at worst 2-3 against you with this strategy. At least it doesn't sound like he drafted his team that way (ignoring SPs in the draft, giving him an advantage in hitters and RPs). The guys down in the standings, you won't have to deal with him again, and no one else in the league is doing this. In the future, like others said, remember to set up the league to prevent this -- either with move limits, counting rates and not raw totals, or count negative stats (like HRs or Losses).
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Postby Ursa » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:49 pm

jealousblues wrote:Yeah, but it sucks because it almost garuntees I love K's and W's. Im in third in h2h, and would like to have a fair chance at catching up with the guys above me. now im all but given two losses.

And that's the point. In H2H, where you have 5 or 6 categories for pitching typically, it's easy to go in the tank on ERA and WHIP with bad performances early in the week. Why not stream pitchers to try to nail two cats if the ERA / WHIP average cats are beyond you? I did this one week when I was being beaten 10-2 or something across the board and I ended up with an 8-4 defeat. In a tight league heading for the playoffs, that's a 4 point turnaround and definitely not to be ignored.
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Postby schmidty » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Ursa wrote:In H2H, where you have 5 or 6 categories for pitching typically, it's easy to go in the tank on ERA and WHIP with bad performances early in the week. Why not stream pitchers to try to nail two cats if the ERA / WHIP average cats are beyond you? I did this one week when I was being beaten 10-2 or something across the board and I ended up with an 8-4 defeat. In a tight league heading for the playoffs, that's a 4 point turnaround and definitely not to be ignored.


This is exactly why I've done some limited (just 1 roster spot for a few days, giving myself some extra starts) churning some weeks. Some weeks I'm down big early in ERA and WHIP, and the other guy just has more SPs with starts that week (usually due to just having more 2-start guys). I can either roll over and take at best a 1-4 loss. But if I have a guy on my roster I'm not thrilled with, I can make the decision mid-week to dump him and give myself a fighting chance for a 3-2 win.
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Postby Ursa » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:22 pm

schmidty wrote:
Ursa wrote:In H2H, where you have 5 or 6 categories for pitching typically, it's easy to go in the tank on ERA and WHIP with bad performances early in the week. Why not stream pitchers to try to nail two cats if the ERA / WHIP average cats are beyond you? I did this one week when I was being beaten 10-2 or something across the board and I ended up with an 8-4 defeat. In a tight league heading for the playoffs, that's a 4 point turnaround and definitely not to be ignored.


This is exactly why I've done some limited (just 1 roster spot for a few days, giving myself some extra starts) churning some weeks. Some weeks I'm down big early in ERA and WHIP, and the other guy just has more SPs with starts that week (usually due to just having more 2-start guys). I can either roll over and take at best a 1-4 loss. But if I have a guy on my roster I'm not thrilled with, I can make the decision mid-week to dump him and give myself a fighting chance for a 3-2 win.

I erroneously gave the impression that I was streaming a whole bunch of pitchers when, like you, I kept it to just one at a time and then only useful spot starters. I know some people that keep one roster spot open all season and cycle different SPs through it two or three times a week. Sometimes you pick up a guy this way who is too good to drop e.g. Zach Miner, so then you clear out another spot and continue. I don't find this unethical at all - anyone can do it - but I only use it when I'm obviously going to lose bigtime otherwise.
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Postby JakeTrain72 » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:25 am

Simple solution really, if you don't like it, you set up the league rules and cats to discourage or limit the effectiveness. Otherwise deal with it.

The only counter strategy is to pitch quality closers and starters until you have a nice lead in Saves and low enough ERA and WHIP where the other manager can't catch you.
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Postby 9er Fan » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:32 pm

I've used the streaming strategy before, and, if done correctly (and you are the only one in the league doing it) it is pretty much unbeatable in H2H leagues. The effectiveness of streaming is greatly limited though when many in the league start doing the same thing... Recommendation is to suck it up this year and make sure you have rules in place to prevent it next year if you don't like it. Assuming you have playoffs and he is in 7th place, it doesn't sound like it will be much of an issue.
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