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Barry Bonds - you better read this before you post about him

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Postby kentx12 » Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:12 am

Bukoski77 and Brokentusk9, better watch out you might make eftda
mad then he will say bad things about both of you like he says about me. Have you both not discovered that he has no opinion except his.
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Postby Bukoski77 » Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:18 am

kentx12 wrote:Bukoski77 and Brokentusk9, better watch out you might make eftda
mad then he will say bad things about both of you like he says about me. Have you both not discovered that he has no opinion except his.



Lol, I ripped Bonds and supported him in the same post. I'll let my points, which are correct, speak for itself. I'd hate to make enemies with some one I have and will never meet over the internet? I cant tell you how many times I've almost been beat up bye someone a thousand miles away over sports dissagreements :*) on the net.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:59 am

eftda.......I don't want to flame you but I just want to clear some things up. Bonds is one of the greatest hitters of all time. That can't be disputed. Putting him close to or over Ruth is doing the Babe a disservice. I know that you are young and haven't seen much more than him or the latest "stars". That is fine and I can't hold that against you. For starters, I will say that in many seasons, Ruth outhomered or doubled the HR output of other TEAMS. Next, let's see Bonds outhomer Ruth in more AB's (already) and then find the time to get around 100 wins as 1 of the best pitchers in the game.

In reality, I love the fact that you are that into your team but I hope that I shed a little light on the situation.
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Postby wrveres » Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:53 am

If you want to know Barry here he is ... or you can continue to take another persons (AKA Reporter) point of view ... and yes he will be compared to Ruth, Mays, and no its not a fricking disservice. Bonds is great .. in order to be great, you have to do it or a long period of time. Before opening your mouth and speaking about a subject that you obvioussly have a biased opinion about, go look at his career stats. Look at em. Stare at them for a while, absorb what he really did, Every fricking year ... EVERY YEAR Dammitt .. thats called being pretty damn good over a long period of time. And now when he reaches his pinaccle, people want to knock him. That is the whole damn point ... and you all are just too naive to get it ...

I am going to steal 500 bases ... I am going to hit 652 homeruns .. I am going to win what .. 8 gold gloves?... I am going to win 5 MVP's (should be 6) what is the next closest ..... 3???? It amazes me ... HE DOESN"T CARE WHAT YOU THINK....when will you all get it .... ??? HUH ???

Oh and another damn thing, it is amazing how many Doctors we have that post in our forum's here ... We must have the largest collection of weight training specialist every assembled ... right here under one roof ... :-)

..... Who fricking knew ..... :-)

MLB wrote:Career:
Is 4th member of exclusive 600 Home Run club, joining Hall of Famers Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth and Willie Mays, with 613 career clouts...has won unprecedented 5 National League Most Valuable Player Awards (1990, '92, '93, '01 and '02), with no other player winning more than 3...single season Home Run King added 1st career batting title in 2002, posting .370 mark to become only 4th Giant to lead league in hitting (Larry Doyle, 1915, .320; Bill Terry, 1930, .401 and Mays, 1954, .345)...also set single-season on-base pct. record in 2002, logging .582 mark to break Ted Williams' 1941 record of .551...posted historic 2001 campaign in which he broke 5 ML records, including single-season HR mark, hitting 73 clouts to break Mark McGwire's standard of 70 in 1998...signed 5-year contract with Giants Jan. 14, 2002, thus insuring future Hall of Famer will close his career in Giants uniform...also signed 10-year personal services contract with club that kicks in at conclusion of current player contract...11-time All-Star and 8-time Rawlings Gold Glove winner was named Player of Decade for 1990s by The Sporting News...owns NL record for consecutive seasons with 30-or-more HR, accomplishing feat 11 times...Jimmie Foxx owns ML mark, reaching 30-HR plateau 12 straight years (1929-40)...shares NL record for most 100-RBI seasons with Hank Aaron, registering his 11th in 2002...Ruth, Foxx and Lou Gehrig hold ML standard with 13...is only member of 400-400 club (HRs-SBs), having also stolen 493 bags in career (37th on All-time ML list)...only 3 other players have even reached 300-300 barrier: Willie Mays (660 HRs, 338 SBs), Andre Dawson (436 HRs, 314 SBs) and his father Bobby Bonds (332 HRs, 461 SBs)...has hit 40-or-more HRs in 6 different seasons, all with Giants (1993 - 46, 1996 - 42, 1997 - 40, 2000 - 49, 2001 - 73 and 2002 - 46)...became 1st player in franchise history to hit 40 or more clouts in 3-straight seasons with his 46-homer output in 2002...campaign also marked just 20th time Giant has hit 40 or more homers in year, with only Mays accomplishing feat more than 4 times (also 6 seasons)...became only 2nd member of 40-40 club and only National Leaguer to accomplish feat after clubbing 42 home runs and stealing 40 bases in 1996...Oakland's Jose Canseco in 1988 and Seattle's Alex Rodriguez in 1998 are only other members of club...with 40 HR and 37 stolen bases in 1997, became 1st player in Major League history to compile at least 40 home runs and 30 stolen bases in 2 different seasons...has reached 30-30 plateau 5 times in career (1990, '92, '95, '96 and '97), joining his father Bobby (1969, '73, '75, '77 and '78) as only 5-time 30-30 men in ML history...only 6 other ML players have accomplished feat more than once: Mays, Howard Johnson, Sammy Sosa, Ron Gant, Jeff Bagwell and Raul Mondesi (all twice)...has hit 20-or-more HRs in season 15 times...ML record for 20-HR seasons is 20 by Aaron...Barry and his father, Bobby (332 HRs), represent the ultimate show of power and speed in father-son pair, holding ML mark for HRs by father-son combo with 945...pair also holds same distinction for stolen bases with 954 thefts combined (Bobby 461, Barry 493)...with combined 2,676 RBI, Barry (1,652) and Bobby (1,024) are also tops for father-son runs driven in...holds Major League record with 423 intentional walks on career, surpassing home run king Hank Aaron (293) in 1999...has 61 multi-homer games to rank 5th in category on all-time list...only players with more multi-HR efforts are Ruth (72), McGwire (67), Mays (63) and Aaron (62)...has reached base safely in 177 of his last 184 games (96.2%) dating back to 2001...included was 58-game streak in which he reached base safely in each contest from Aug. 15, 2001-April 20, 2002...for his career, has played for playoff contending teams in 9 of his 17 seasons...during regular season in Sept. and Oct. of those 9 years, has hit combined .332 (266-for-801) with 77 HRs and 200 RBI...has played 1,429 contests in Giants uniform, which is 4th most on SF games list...he trails only Willie McCovey (2,256), Willie Mays (2,095) and Jim Davenport (1,501) in SF annals...was 1 of only 2 players in majors to hit at least 20 homers in each year during 1990's, matching former Giant Matt Williams...collected 2,000th hit in 1999, becoming just 210th player in ML history and 47th to have worn Giants uniform to reach milestone...is only 25th player in ML history to amass 2,000 hits and 400 home runs in career...has homered in 28 big league parks, marking each ML park he has played in (during regular season)...in fan balloting during 1999 season, was named left fielder on San Francisco Giants All-Time team...was also named left fielder on 1990's All-Decade team in balloting among local media...was originally drafted by SF in 2nd round of 1982 draft, but elected to attend Arizona State.

A Giant in the Community:
In association with The United Way of the Bay Area, has formed Bonds Family Foundation with the goal to encourage, promote and fund programs designed to improve educational achievements, standard of living and quality of life conditions for African-American youth within Bay Area community, with an emphasis on programs that use interactive technology-based solutions...continued his quest to help children as Family Foundation began "Link 'n Learn" program to connect parents, children, schools and neighborhoods with tutoring services and interactive educational technology...Link 'n Learn program benefits over 1,500 children from grades 1-4 in selected low-income communities in San Francisco Bay Area by using interactive educational technology and high quality tutoring programs to enhance school-parent involvement and increase the learning experience of an at-risk child...was honored by Cedars-Sinai Hospital Sports Spectacular and helped raise money for Medical Genetics Birth-Defects Center at hospital...taped public service announcement for RADD (Recording Artists, Actors and Athletes Against Drunk Driving) for their 2002 campaign...participated in Kyle Petty Charity Ride, which raises money for outdoor camps for children with life-threatening or chronic illnesses...donated $100,000 to United Way for families of victims from Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, giving $10,000 per HR following tragedy...along with Cal Ripken and Alex Rodriguez, is national spokesperson for Baseball Tomorrow Fund...appeared in public service announcements designed to promote and enhance growth of youth baseball...under auspices of Bonds Family Foundation, he spearheaded bone marrow campaign, 6-year drive to register African Americans and raise funds for families whose loved ones have leukemia or related blood disorders...as board member of San Francisco United Way, has done public service announcement about campaign, featuring his special teenage friend, Anthony "Lee" Franklin, a near straight-A student and star shortstop/pitcher on Oakland's 1996 Babe Ruth League national championship team, who was diagnosed with leukemia...in 1999 established scholarship fund at alma mater Serra (San Mateo, CA) High School for an African American student based on academic and athletic achievement as well as community service...participated in 1998 Christmas in April which renovated home for autistic children, providing security system and digitial satellite system...beginning in 1997, Family Foundation started "Bridge to the Future" campaign which equipped 350 after-school centers and 7,000 family homes with Sony CD ROM Play Stations featuring Lightspan Learning Software...has appeared on billboard for California Police Activities League's "Stop Youth Violence" campaign...was honored at special tribute dinner in November 1996 by the Adopt-A-Special Kid organization after having donated $100,000 to AASK since 1993...San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown also proclaimed that day as "Barry Bonds Day" in San Francisco...during seasons at Candlestick, purchased 50 bleacher seats per game for 42 dates during summer vacation months of June, July and August establishing "The Bonds Squad," section for "Make-a-Family" program...in addition, has pledged $10,000 each year to AASK and $100 for each home run, stolen base and RBI each season...was honored in 1995 by Cardiac Arrhythmias Research and Education Foundation for his work with young athletes and his interest in combating sudden cardiac deaths...also in 1994, helped raise another $12,500 for AASK by co-hosting celebrity baseball game ("Field of Dreams") with singer Michael Bolton...in 1993, also co-hosted Thanksgiving special on Prime Network to help raise funds for fire victims of Southern California...autographed baseballs and bats which were donated to United Way to further help fire victims.

MVPs:
Has won unprecedented 5 National League Most Valuable Player Awards (1990, '92, '93, '01 and '02), with no player winning more than 3...is 1 of only 6 athletes in 4 major professional sports (baseball, basketball, football and hockey) to win 5 MVP Awards, joining NBA's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6), Michael Jordan (5) and Bill Russell (5) as well as NHL's Wayne Gretzky (9) and Gordie Howe (6)...was unanimous choice in 2002, as he was listed 1st on all 32 ballots submitted to score perfect 448 points...is 1st player in MLB history to win consecutive MVPs 2 different times in his career (1992-93 and 2001-02)...is already 5th National Leaguer and 11th player overall to win MVP awards in successive seasons (previous player: Frank Thomas in 1993-94)...is 1st Giants player to win award 3 times, as Carl Hubbell (1933 and '36) and Willie Mays (1954 and '65) are only players in franchise history to garner MVP twice...with 2002 award, became 2nd oldest MVP at age 38...only Willie Stargell was older, winning as 39-year-old in 1979...seized his place in ML record book in 1993 by becoming 1st player ever to win league Most Valuable Player Award (BBWAA) for 3rd time in 4 seasons when he garnered 24 1st-place votes and 372 points en route to NL trophy...joined Jimmie Foxx ('32, '33 and '38), Joe DiMaggio ('39, '41 and '47), Stan Musial ('43, '46 and '48), Roy Campanella ('51, '53 and '55), Yogi Berra ('51, '54 and '55), Mickey Mantle ('56, '57 and '62) and Mike Schmidt ('80, '81 and '86) as 1 of only 8 players in baseball history to win MVP award 3 times...previously named MVP with Pittsburgh in 1990 and 1992, barely losing out to Terry Pendleton in '91 (274-259)...if 2 voters had reversed their votes for 1st and 2nd that year, Bonds would have won 4 awards in a row.

Player of 1990s:
Was named Player of Decade for 1990s by The Sporting News...hit .302 (1,478-for-4,894) with 1,091 runs scored, 299 2Bs, 42 3Bs, 361 HRs, 1,076 RBI and 343 in 1,434 games during 1990s...past Player of Decade winners include: Stan Musial (1946-55), Ted Williams (1950-59), Willie Mays (1960-69), Pete Rose (1970-79) and Mike Schmidt (1980-89)...was only player in either league to receive MVP points in each year during 1990s...finished 3rd in decade for HRs, behind Mark McGwire (405) and Ken Griffey, Jr. (382)...also logged 3rd highest RBI total in 1990s, trailing only Albert Belle (1,099) and Griffey, Jr. (1,091)...won 8 Gold Gloves in left field...only Griffey, Jr. (10) and Greg Maddux (10) had more, at any position.

Baseball Bloodline:
Former Giants' great and hitting coach Bobby Bonds is his father...he and his father hold all-time father-son HR record with 899 (Bobby 332/Barry 567)...Bobby played 14 years in Majors, including 7 with Giants (1968-74)...Barry and Bobby are 2 of only 8 players in ML history to enjoy multiple 30-HR, 30-steal seasons...senior and junior Bonds are only players ever to hit 30 HRs and steal 30 bases 5 times during a career...2 have also accounted for 11 Gold Glove awards (Barry 8, Bobby 3)...by age of 4, Barry was regular visitor to Candlestick Park, as his mother, Pat, would drive him and his brother, Rickey (now 32), to stadium on game days and they would play catch with Barry's godfather, future Hall-of-Famer Willie Mays...Bonds children would also shag flies and run around clubhouse...his father attended Barry's games at San Carlos (CA) Little League and later at Serra High, but he seldom sat in stands for fear of stealing crowd's attention, instead parking his car behind some trees.

Personal:
Graduated from Serra (San Mateo, CA) High School in 1982...starred in baseball, basketball and football at Serra, school that has also produced Lynn Swann, Jim Fregosi, Gregg Jefferies and Super Bowl MVP Tom Brady...hit .404 over 3 varsity seasons, including .467 average as prep All-America his senior year...played 3 years for Arizona State University, hitting career .347 with 45 home runs and 175 RBI...named All-Pac 10 all 3 years, chosen to The Sporting News All-America Team as junior in 1985...tied NCAA record with 7 consecutive hits in College World Series as sophomore...was named to All-Time College World Series Team in 1996...born in Riverside, CA, where his father and former Giants manager Dusty Baker were also born and raised...his aunt, Rosie Bonds, once held U.S. women's record in 80-meter hurdles and was on '64 U.S. Olympic Team...Mays, Mickey Mantle, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Tony Dorsett were his childhood heroes...hobbies include weightlifting, martial arts and dancing...10-handicap golfer...married (Liz Watson, Jan. 10, 1998)...has son (Nikolai) and 2 daughters (Shikari and Aisha Lynn).
25                "Love the Padres"
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:12 am

Brokentusks9 wrote:
eftda wrote:are you new to baseball, he had the highest batting avg in the NL last year, and 12 hits shy of .400. (lets say he went 0-12, well he if he went 12-12 then he would have had .400)


Are YOU new to baseball? Or just simple math??

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/s ... atsId=3918

12-12 would put him at 161-415 which is a .388 batting average.

.388 != .400

Please refrain from sassing people when you cannot even get the facts straight yourself.


actually, eftda is correct. if instead of 0-12, bonds went 12-12, then he would have 161 hits in 403 at bats, not 415 at bats. that equates to a .3995 batting average.

i dont like bonds but that is because i am a cardinals fan and he broke mcgwire's record. i dont mind saying i am a little biased. i cant say anything bad about bonds playing ability though. he is one of the best ever.

1. The RULES of baseball say he can take drugs and if he gets caught then he has 2 weeks to clean up, retest... and NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW


i dont really know what the rules of baseball say but i hope they dont say exactly that. i am not a doctor but i dont need to be one to know roids take longer than two weeks to get out of the system. depending on the kind of steroid, it can take more than a month.

2. Who cares if he is stuck up, maybe he can’t help it. EVERYONE has problems. Did you guys know that starting from his days in the minors, the media have been to most if not all of his games asking question after question? I don’t know about you but I would be pissed at 'fans' and the media if I was asked questions EVERYDAY for 20 years.


i have been hearing a lot about willie mays lately. supposedly he handled the media similar to the way barry is handling it now. no one speaks ill of willie though. i think people just like hating barry.

3. Ya, I bet, but then again it takes more than drugs to hit the ball. He still has to make contact. And shut up, more than 25% of the minors take steroids, and more than 40% take them in the majors. Look at Sosa, Giambi, McGwire, Mulder, Pizza, etc..


while it is true that it takes more than drugs to be a good baseball player, wouldnt you agree that it is still wrong?

4. We will be able to compare Ruth and Bonds when Bonds is done with baseball.


in my opinion - no. drawing a fair comparison of players from different eras will not yield a conclusive result. one can only say that bonds was the most dominant hitter of the 90's and early 00's.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sun Aug 24, 2003 11:05 am

wrveres.......I find it humorous that you can tell me that I take someone else's point of view and then you sit there and copy and paste someone else's article. :-P I have looked at the numbers. Unfortunately, with Ruth, most of us need to do that. I have said it before and I'll say it again. Bonds is great. I will never dispute that. What gets me is the guys who have seen nothing more than Bonds and just want to put him up there all alone. I never said that he cares what I think but apparentyly you think that he cares what YOU think. Again, Bonds is awesome and you tell me to look at the stats. Well, I did and you know what? As of right now, the only cats that Bonds has the edge are in 2B's and SB's while Ruth obviously has the edge in pitching wins. I think that YOU should look at the stats but I will give you the rundown:

FYI - :-t = Bad for Bonds

AVG - Ruth has a 45 point higher career average :-t
GAMES - Bonds has already played 42 more games :-t
AB - Bonds already has 263 more AB's :-t
RUNS - Ruth has 252 more runs scored :-t
HITS - Ruth has 300 more hits than Bonds (in less AB's) :-t
2B's and 3B's - Bonds has a slight edge in 2B while Ruth runs away with 3B :-o
HR - Ruth has the edge in less AB's :-t
RBI - Almost 500 more in less AB's :-t
WALKS - Ruth has a slight edge in less games :-t
K's - Very similar
OBP - Ruth is 42 points better :-t
SLG - Ruth is 89 points better :-t

I now ask you.......Which stats is it that you are looking at? Yes. Bonds will beat some of the records by compiling his stats in more games. Yes. He is a great player that is 1 of the greatest ever but Ruth IS the greatest ever.

You list the community stuff. That is nice and I am actually 1 of the few that praises him for staying out of trouble. My only problem with him is that he usually puts his foot in his mouth when he opens it.

I will admit that Bonds was a great outfielder but Gold Gloves are subjective (ie. Palmiero). Even Bernie won the award. As for the MVP's, since you apparently know all of the stats of all time, then you would know that when Ruth played, you were disqualified from winning the award once you won 1. Do you really think that's all that he would have won?

You told me to look at the stats so now I ask you to do the same. I actually like discussions like this. We learn from them.
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Postby eftda » Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:54 pm

Lofunzo wrote:FYI - :-t = Bad for Bonds

AVG - Ruth has a 45 point higher career average :-t
GAMES - Bonds has already played 42 more games :-t
AB - Bonds already has 263 more AB's :-t
RUNS - Ruth has 252 more runs scored :-t
HITS - Ruth has 300 more hits than Bonds (in less AB's) :-t
2B's and 3B's - Bonds has a slight edge in 2B while Ruth runs away with 3B :-o
HR - Ruth has the edge in less AB's :-t
RBI - Almost 500 more in less AB's :-t
WALKS - Ruth has a slight edge in less games :-t
K's - Very similar
OBP - Ruth is 42 points better :-t
SLG - Ruth is 89 points better :-t



you just picked that stats that Ruth edges bonds with. And walk, you have to be jokeing. Look, he had 198 walks last year. that a single season record. Also, bonds hit 73 hr in a year. AND WE DONT KNOW IF RUTH WAS ON DRUGS! Also, bonds has a 40-40 year and 500 stolen bases. Ruth had wins but he cant compare pitching to hitting. Thats liek saying whos better: Randy Johnson, or Arod. Well, you have to say: whos the best pitcher and best batter. Yes Bonds will 'never' we as good as ruth because all of you who say that he had less atbats, but look, bonds gets walked like crazy, and he still hits 40+ homeruns.
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Postby DK » Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:59 pm

first of all, you guys are getting way too into this conversation.

second of all, IMO, its no contest. Ruth by a mile. however, my opinion doesn't truly matter, because it's only my opinion.

third of all:they're from different eras. it's like comparing apples and oranges.

fourth of all, i don't think ruth was on drugs. ruth was on hot dogs, subs, and women.

fifth of all, ruth hit a ball an estimated 625 feet. id like to see bonds do that.

sixth of all, nobody gets better in their late thirties and early forties. bonds had to choose between homers and SB's, and he made a decision to choose steroids.

seventh of all, despite having a .370 average, he had only 44 runs produced last year. compare that with arod, magglio, or any other hitter last year. so, he's a pure HR hitter.

eighth of all, im done.
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Postby LCBOY » Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:14 pm

benjapage wrote:my admiration for him is deep--he really is (or was) an all-around star.

however, in explanation of my disdain for this player, he stands so close to the plate...SO CLOSE, and he wears that newfoundland dog on his right arm, daring the pitcher to throw in on him.

stand close to the plate and get hit. that's fine. i respect that. biggio does it all the time, takes it like a man. olmeido saenz did it for the a's last year. fine. but they're not sporting the winter parka on the pitcher-side arm. it's just not fair. and the looks he gives pitchers when he's hit...i could climb through the tv and wack him with a folding chair. ok, that's over the top. but i get extremely annoyed.

this manipulation, so liberally tolerated by mlb (because the man puts butts in the seats) is what really pisses me off. if you mummified me in a thick rubber and nylon, i could take a good bean, too. that basically *gives* the batter the plate. the only strike a pitcher can throw without *hitting* him is the outside half. that sure narrows it down, doesn't it?

but i do respect his numbers, work ethic and longevity. let me dislike the bastard, and i'll let you like him.

b


And how much body armor does Biggio wear? Lots!
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Postby LCBOY » Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:31 pm

kentx12 wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The guy has almost 500 stolen bases. That isn't too "one-dimensional" too me.


Early in his carear he was a great base runner, however after he gained about 100 pounds and his hat size went from a 6 to a 9 "Just by working out and no steroids or anything" in about a year he really slowed down. He can still steal when he needs to but he hasn't been a big threat in a few years. He is a homerun hitter and can hit for avg. He is nowhere near the best at his posistion and he should not be considered with any of the best of all time. Imagine what Ruth, Aron and other power hitters of there time could have done if they had been on the juice. Hell watch out for Pierre, he could be the next to get on the juice and bulk up and do 500/500. Bonds is a disgrace. :-t


Another strawman arguement. Barry has not gained 100 pounds. Barry is listed at 228. In his early years his baseball card had him listed at 180-185. So he's gained about 40-45 pounds. This whole thing about he hat size going up has become an urban legend. Nobody has a size 9 hat. I only know of one major leaguer that even wears a size 8 hat, that being Kevin Mench. Can anyone cite even one source were it states that Barry's hat size has changed dramatically over the years. I'd like to see one source sited, please.

You state that Bonds is not one of the best at his position. Well let's see. Before Barry reached the majors the title for Greatest Left Fielder of All Time" was between Ted Williams and Stan Musial. Bonds measures up to those guys and more. Bill James stated that Williams was never the player Bonds is and he said that in 1993. Bonds doesn't steal anymore because he is old. Old players tend to run a lot less than young players. This has always been true. Bonds is still a good baserunner though.

As for Ruth and Aaron, both were right fielders not left fielders. Enough said.
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