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HoF Debate: David Justice

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HoF Debate: David Justice

Postby bigh0rt » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:47 pm

Took yesterday off -- was at my fiance's parents' lake house for a party. Just got home and back in action!

At Bat: David Justice

Most will likely consider Justice our weakest candidate of the series thus far, but I've heard rumblings of people thinking that David may one day deserve a spot in Cooperstown, so in an attempt to be fair, he joins the club in the Debate.

The retired, lefty 3-time All-Star outfielder, formerly of the Braves, Indians, Yankees, and Athletics, ended his 14 season career in 2002. 1500+ Hits, 300+ HR, 1000+ RBI, .378 career OBP, .500 career SLG, 1990 NL Rookie of the Year, 2000 NLCS MVP, 2 Silver Sluggers, 2 Top 5 and 4 Top 15 MVP Award Finishes.

Gray Ink: Batting - 43 (554) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 28.7 (330) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 43.5 (404) (Likely HOFer > 100)

If I'm voting, Justice doesn't make the cut. He never drove in more than 120 batters, though he did hit 40 HRs twice when it was seemingly less common than it is today (the first one in 1993 at least; not so much in 2000). David stole double digit bases only once, bat sub-.280 for his career, and never scored 100 Runs. As I said early in the post... I'm just trying to be fair here. I've heard people claiming Justice deserves at least consideration, so consideration is what we're giving him here. Will anybody stand up for Justice? :-?

Things I Consider:
- Historical Impact - Did the player leave his mark on the game? This is probably the area in which the fewest players actually impact the HoF, as so few people actually fall under this criteria; however, it is just one of several things to be considered.
- Position Rank - How does he stack up against his peers, not only of his own era but in baseball history? Judging a player against his contemporaries is one way to judge value.
- Longevity - how long does a player play at the top of his game? Is his peak short, or does he maintain excellence over a stretch? Is he given an extra nudge due to simply doing something for an absurd amount of time?
- 'The Numbers' - Isn't that what it's all about, afterall? From the milestones, to the averages/ratios, to the career highs, records, etc. etc.

Remember, NO FLAMING/INSTIGATIN'!

;-D
Last edited by bigh0rt on Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby IllinoisBandit » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:51 pm

Lots of good memories from David, but he belongs in the Hall of Pretty Good.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:52 pm

1999 NL Rookie of the Year


:-B

1 thing that I like to do is look at the amount of seasons that could qualify as HOF seasons. I see 2 definites and 1 maybe. That doesn't bode well for him in my eyes.
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Postby bigh0rt » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:57 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
1999 NL Rookie of the Year


:-B

1 thing that I like to do is look at the amount of seasons that could qualify as HOF seasons. I see 2 definites and 1 maybe. That doesn't bode well for him in my eyes.


Got carried away with the 9's :-b That's 1999 RoY. ;-)

I agree on David. As I said though - just trying to give everybody I hear name-dropped, etc. a fair shake. I've got a good one for tomorrow's Debate, so be ready B-)
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Postby noseeum » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:58 pm

Probably doesn't make the cut. His career was too short.

But he was a damn good player, that's for sure.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:59 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
1999 NL Rookie of the Year


:-B

1 thing that I like to do is look at the amount of seasons that could qualify as HOF seasons. I see 2 definites and 1 maybe. That doesn't bode well for him in my eyes.


:-b That was the first thing I noticed too.

One of my fondest memories was during a Yankees/Red Sox game at the Stadium in the summer of 2001. The Yankees were losing by one in the bottom of the 9th. Derek Lowe came in to close the game. He quickly got the first out. Then I stood up and prepared to walk down the steps in order to escape the Stadium as quickly as possible. As I started to leave my seat, Paul O'Neil ripped a homerun into right field, to tie the game. I promptly remained near my seat. D-Lowe got the next out. Up came Justice. He was 0 for 4 with 4 strikeouts on the day. D-Lowe delivered the first pitch and Justice ripped it into the right field bleachers, to win the game.

One of the greatest games I've ever been to. I enjoyed watching Justice play, but he is no HOFer.
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Postby davidmarver » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:05 pm

The most interesting Justice stat is the fact that his team made the playoffs the last nine seasons of his career (skipping over the strike shortened season).

However, if you go into depth with Justice you see that he wasn't any better than Ryan Klesko -- and if he was, there's a miniscule difference -- and there's no chance Ryno breaks into the Hall.
<pre>
Player OPS+ RC/27 BRAA FRAA SB
Justice 128 6.80 260 20 53
Klesko 130 6.72 291 -99 86</pre>

I'll pass on Justice; I agree he is the weakest presented thus far.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:08 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
1999 NL Rookie of the Year


:-B

1 thing that I like to do is look at the amount of seasons that could qualify as HOF seasons. I see 2 definites and 1 maybe. That doesn't bode well for him in my eyes.


:-b That was the first thing I noticed too.

One of my fondest memories was during a Yankees/Red Sox game at the Stadium in the summer of 2001. The Yankees were losing by one in the bottom of the 9th. Derek Lowe came in to close the game. He quickly got the first out. Then I stood up and prepared to walk down the steps in order to escape the Stadium as quickly as possible. As I started to leave my seat, Paul O'Neil ripped a homerun into right field, to tie the game. I promptly remained near my seat. D-Lowe got the next out. Up came Justice. He was 0 for 4 with 4 strikeouts on the day. D-Lowe delivered the first pitch and Justice ripped it into the right field bleachers, to win the game.

One of the greatest games I've ever been to. I enjoyed watching Justice play, but he is no HOFer.


If you stayed at the game that long, you can't wait another 2 outs??
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Postby Snakes Gould » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:09 pm

davidmarver wrote:The most interesting Justice stat is the fact that his team made the playoffs the last nine seasons of his career (skipping over the strike shortened season).

However, if you go into depth with Justice you see that he wasn't any better than Ryan Klesko -- and if he was, there's a miniscule difference -- and there's no chance Ryno breaks into the Hall.
<pre>
Player OPS+ RC/27 BRAA FRAA SB
Justice 128 6.80 260 20 53
Klesko 130 6.72 291 -99 86</pre>

I'll pass on Justice; I agree he is the weakest presented thus far.


yeah i definitely disagree....i dont even know if i consider david justice a hall of famer of the 90's ;-7 he was a very good player but dont remember him even being great once. :-t for justice.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:10 pm

Lofunzo wrote:If you stayed at the game that long, you can't wait another 2 outs??


I wasn't running out the door, I just assumed the game was probably over, so I planned to walk down the stairs towards the exit while I watched the final outs.
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