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So Cubbies... Is Dusty gone?

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Postby Absolutely Adequate » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:05 pm

ThatDude wrote:
Absolutely Adequate wrote:Jacque Jones is better than most people believe. I'm not looking it up, but isn't he hitting close to .300 with 15 homers? And isn't he doing it for about 5 million dollars? He's not great, but he's a solid player, I think.


Yes, he is hitting .307 with 15 HR's, but he needs to be a platooned.

This year:

vs. lefties .213/.387/.620
vs. righties.342/.588/.964


For his career :

vs. lefties .226/.343/.617
vs. righties .297/.495/.839


I still don't like the idea of spending $15M over 3 years on a platoon player.


I just don't think he's that overpaid. Looking at the players making a similar amount of money, he's not that bad a deal.

It's not a great deal, of course, but he's not the root of the Cubs' problems. His badness is overstated.
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Postby johnsamo » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:09 pm

Everybody deserves blame.... I actually like Jones, but as a platoon, and platooning is more an AL option because you don't need a deep as deep a bench in the AL. An NL team can afford one, two platoon spots at most...

In the NL, the best platoon strategy is a leftly/righty hitting catcher platoon, and a utility lefty hitter who plays all around the field to give righty hitters a day off now and then... IMO.
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Postby ThatDude » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:12 pm

Absolutely Adequate wrote:It's not a great deal, of course, but he's not the root of the Cubs' problems.


Agreed.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:22 pm

johnsamo wrote:In the NL, the best platoon strategy is a leftly/righty hitting catcher platoon, and a utility lefty hitter who plays all around the field to give righty hitters a day off now and then... IMO.
Too bad there aren't many lefty catchers. ;-)
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Postby statsman88 » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:44 am

platoon Jones? He is the only reason they score any runs at all. He is the only guy who hits with 2 outs at all and by far has been the most clutch hitter on the team.

.300 and 15 hr, ? That kinda player needs to play everyday, especially for the cubs.
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Postby ThatDude » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:08 am

statsman88 wrote:platoon Jones? He is the only reason they score any runs at all. He is the only guy who hits with 2 outs at all and by far has been the most clutch hitter on the team.

.300 and 15 hr, ? That kinda player needs to play everyday, especially for the cubs.


Did you not see the splits I posted earlier? He is just plain horrible against lefties, and "clutch" just doesn't exist.

Playing him everyday won't do a thing to help this team now. He needs to be traded, along with Pierre. They can call up Pie and Restovich to play CF and RF. This season is wasted, might as well see what these guys can do.
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Postby EugeneStyles » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:18 am

God, I am so sick of hearing people say that the Cubs have no talent. The team has enough talent to be at least over .500 at this point in the season, not racing for last place. Part of the blame is injuries, part of it is the players obviously, but a lot of the blame *has* to fall on the manager. When good players become terrible, the entire team at the same time, who else is to blame but the manager?

But saying there's no talent on this team? That's ridiculous. The lineup with reasonable pre-season projections:

1 Pierre - .300, .350 OBP, 50 SB
2 Walker - .300, .350 OBP, .450 SLG, 15 HR
3 Lee - .320, .600 SLG, 40 HR, 120 RBI, 15 SB
4 Ramirez - .280, .575 SLG, 35 HR, 100 RBI
5 Barrett - .290, 16 HR, 70 RBI
6 Jones - .270, 25 HR, 15 SB
7 Murton - .280, 15 HR
8 Cedeno - .270, 8 HR, 10 SB

That's a pretty good lineup right there. And Barrett and Jones are actually exceeding expectations this year, despite a terrible April by Jacques.

A pitching staff with Zambrano, Maddux, Marshall, Rusch, and Williams looked okay going into the season - Rusch and Williams actually performed okay last year. If Hendry really messed up, it was in not getting a #3 pitcher. No one was "counting" on Prior and Wood this season. They were counting on Rusch and Williams not being *too* sucky. Bad gamble there.

Of course, the lineup looks a lot worse when you drop D. Lee, or put in Neifi and Hairston every other day. Or when your players seem to have no idea where the ball is, or how many outs there are, or what to do when a ball is in play. Blame Dusty for that.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:48 am

wrveres wrote:I know you guys are young, but come on its the Cubs. The loveable losers.

to this day, nobody has been able to tell me exactly when, other than the arrival of Dusty Baker, when the Cubs became this yearly contender I have been hearing so much about.

5 winning seasons in 35 years...
FIVE! ..

As for Dusty. I hope he runs away from that organization. Hell he has already quit, and who can blame him. Over the last two years, the Cubs fans have been some of the most disrespectful, digraceful fans I have seen in a long time.

They deserve this losing, they trully do. :-t

Wrveres, actual Cubs fans have always wanted a winning product, and you want to know when the Cubs were supposed to be a yearly contendner? 2003, when we paid big money for Dusty Baker to be a yearly contender. That season only heightened expectations. Dusty, for this year, has pretty much deserved all the malice, because he's gotten absolutely nothing out of this team.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:54 am

wrveres wrote:In 2002 the Cubs got 33 starts out of Kerry Wood, and 19 starts out of Prior (more than 1/2 the season), 16 starts out of Zambrano and a career year out of Clement, and still managed to finish 30 games out of first and 27 games below .500 ..

so it must have been the addition of Kenny Lofton, and Dusty Baker just got lucky winning 8 seasons in a row ...



I'm sorry, I stand corrected again. ;-7

Zambrano and Prior were summer call-up rookies that year after the Cubs were well out of playoff competition...
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Postby wrveres » Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:18 am

CubsFan7724 wrote:
wrveres wrote:In 2002 the Cubs got 33 starts out of Kerry Wood, and 19 starts out of Prior (more than 1/2 the season), 16 starts out of Zambrano and a career year out of Clement, and still managed to finish 30 games out of first and 27 games below .500 ..

so it must have been the addition of Kenny Lofton, and Dusty Baker just got lucky winning 8 seasons in a row ...



I'm sorry, I stand corrected again. ;-7

Zambrano and Prior were summer call-up rookies that year after the Cubs were well out of playoff competition...
You are probably this forum's best troll. Baseball, politics, Bonds threads, you are a triple threat!


lol @ troll .. ah sweetness you have been missed.

I realize that Zambrano was a 2nd half call up, but I am pretty sure that Prior was called up before the break.


Sweetness wrote: Wrveres, actual Cubs fans have always wanted a winning product, and you want to know when the Cubs were supposed to be a yearly contendner? 2003, when we paid big money for Dusty Baker to be a yearly contender. That season only heightened expectations. Dusty, for this year, has pretty much deserved all the malice, because he has gotten absolutely nothing out of this team.
This hatred towards Dusty did not begin just this year. It started about the same time he unpacked his toothpicks. All one has to do is search these very forums to see that.

Styles wrote:Of course, the lineup looks a lot worse when you drop D. Lee, or put in Neifi and Hairston every other day. Or when your players seem to have no idea where the ball is, or how many outs there are, or what to do when a ball is in play. Blame Dusty for that.


agreed.
As I said before, there is not a doubt in my mind that Dusty has quit. And to be honest, who can blame him. I mean just look at this thread alone, you have Cubs fans mad at him because he will not call his players out in public, and that is putting it mildly as to what we usually read around here.
I bet if we took a poll of the cafe, in excess of 75 % of the people in here would blame Dusty for Mark Prior and Kerry Wood's injuries. And another 50% would call Dusty an arm killer when in fact he has killed none. I have asked many times through out the years here, for someone in here to show me one starting pitcher that Dusty destroyed prior to him going to the Cubs. And to date no one has brought forward one ounce of evidence.

I just have a lot of difficulty believing that a manager can rattle off 8 winning season in a row, win two manager of the year awards, go entire seasons with out sending a starting pitcher to the DL, and then he gets to Chicago and wham ..

He is a bumbling idiot that could not find water in a lake, and is a notorious arm killer ..

I am not buying it .. sorry.
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