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JEFF Weaver traded to the Cards

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Postby 405z06 » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:35 am

lachlanoddy,

What you were expecting, a 24-year old A-baller for Johan Santana?

Jocketty has fleeced so many teams so many times over the years, I think as Cardinal fans we expect him to do it every year.

As someone who has vivid memories of the post-Whitey / Joe Torre years, i find it difficult to complain about a team that makes it to the postseason nearly every year. At least we have a chance at the ring. Can't say that about most teams.
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Postby lachlanoddy » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:54 am

No. We don't.

That is the point.

We have a chance to BE THERE. But really, the ring is gone (to mordor or something. I blame the hobbits).

But, as I said, everyone here is happy with that.
This game means nothing.... unless I'm winning!
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Postby 405z06 » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:46 am

lachlanoddy wrote:No. We don't.

That is the point.

We have a chance to BE THERE. But really, the ring is gone.

But, as I said, everyone here is happy with that.


Well, I guess we shall agree to disagree. Why do you assume that the best team automatically wins the WS? It doesn't take much research to dissprove this theory. History (including recent history) is littered with teams that squeak into the playoffs only to win it all. Check it out yourself:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/

Sometimes its just a matter of who gets hot at the right time.

Is this team not capable of going on a run? As much as they have sucked lately, I think they are better than June's record.
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Postby ds209 » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:08 pm

This annoys the crap out of me. Once again, the cardinals pull of a mid-season 'wonder trade'. Now, I know that they have been hamstrung in the trade market what with other teams not biting much, but EVERY year lately they are doing this... they realise that they have a DAMN good team, but that it isn't quite good enough to get it all, and instead of putting out the cash and really doing it right, they half-ass the job and lose in the world series/NL championship.

Gah.

The fans here are too nice about it; they're happy that we have a 'good' team. Well... sucks. I want to win a championship sometime.

Rant rant... I am so bummed.

Weaver good definitely be worth a look though now. It does help him, I just don't think that it is quite what the cardinals should have been looking for...


I agree. This really isn't Jocketty's fault, he's doing all he can with what he's got. What I don't understand is how our payroll managed to slip the year we get a new ballpark and the year we raise ticket prices. Something needs to be done because I also feel like if we could just take that ONE extra step, we could be a World Series team. At this point we are not at all a World Series contender, our bullpen is in shambles, the bottom of the rotation is struggling, and we have too many holes in our lineup. We give away 4 spots in the lineup pretty much every night because we get absolutley NO production from the pitcher obviously, 2B, LF, or C.


We are not a bad team. I still think the Cards will make the playoffs. But the point is we havent made that extra stride to make us World Series contenders, we are just happy about being in the playoffs as lachlanoddy said.
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Postby superslugger616 » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:46 pm

What do you think will be Jeff Weaver's fantasy value now?
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Postby mcliffy2 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:08 am

lachlanoddy wrote:This annoys the crap out of me. Once again, the cardinals pull of a mid-season 'wonder trade'. Now, I know that they have been hamstrung in the trade market what with other teams not biting much, but EVERY year lately they are doing this... they realise that they have a DAMN good team, but that it isn't quite good enough to get it all, and instead of putting out the cash and really doing it right, they half-ass the job and lose in the world series/NL championship.

Gah.

The fans here are too nice about it; they're happy that we have a 'good' team. Well... sucks. I want to win a championship sometime.

Rant rant... I am so bummed.

:) Weaver good definitely be worth a look though now. It does help him, I just don't think that it is quite what the cardinals should have been looking for...


Grrr...

I agree...go after Schmoltz.
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Postby quitesanemax » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:49 pm

405z06 wrote:
lachlanoddy wrote:No. We don't.

That is the point.

We have a chance to BE THERE. But really, the ring is gone.

But, as I said, everyone here is happy with that.


Well, I guess we shall agree to disagree. Why do you assume that the best team automatically wins the WS? It doesn't take much research to dissprove this theory. History (including recent history) is littered with teams that squeak into the playoffs only to win it all. Check it out yourself:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/

Sometimes its just a matter of who gets hot at the right time.

Is this team not capable of going on a run? As much as they have sucked lately, I think they are better than June's record.


Ah... maybe with the NFL you can sometimes say that the best team didn't win... its just one game... maybe the winner got lucky. But 4 out of 7... Sorry bud, the best team is going to win a 4 out of 7 game series 99 percent of the time.

I've heard the rumor put forward that LaRussa works his players so hard during the regular season that by the time the playoffs comes along, they are too beat up to go the distance. I think what happened to Scott Rolen last year might be a perfect example of this...
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:02 pm

quitesanemax wrote:Ah... maybe with the NFL you can sometimes say that the best team didn't win... its just one game... maybe the winner got lucky. But 4 out of 7... Sorry bud, the best team is going to win a 4 out of 7 game series 99 percent of the time.

99% of the time is exaggeration. A majority of the time yes but I have seen plenty of times when one team is just hot or the other team is cold and that determines the series. I still don't think most people would agree that the Angels were the best team in 2002. They just got hot at the right time.

I've heard the rumor put forward that LaRussa works his players so hard during the regular season that by the time the playoffs comes along, they are too beat up to go the distance. I think what happened to Scott Rolen last year might be a perfect example of this...
LaRussa gives more days off than most managers cause he likes the bench players to see regular action. And Rolen hurt his shoulder in a collision at 1B so I don't see how that would apply.
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Postby quitesanemax » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:57 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:99% of the time is exaggeration. A majority of the time yes but I have seen plenty of times when one team is just hot or the other team is cold and that determines the series. I still don't think most people would agree that the Angels were the best team in 2002. They just got hot at the right time.


Maybe an exaggeration... if so, not by much. Hot or cold. You win 4 out of 7, thats not luck. The better team has won... IMO. I think that the Angels and Giants were pretty evenly matched. I give the Angels the edge because they won. I don't believe that the better team lost. Maybe we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Pogotheostrich wrote: LaRussa gives more days off than most managers cause he likes the bench players to see regular action. And Rolen hurt his shoulder in a collision at 1B so I don't see how that would apply.


When Rolen came back later in the year, last year, LaRussa kept putting him into the game even though it was clear he wasn't really healed, and could use the rest. When he finally put him on the bench, it was too late. He was out the rest of the year. Now some claim this was because Rolen said he was okay. A players always going to say that. It is the manager's job to realize when this isn't the case. LaRussa failed in that duty last year. I was only paying attention that time because I was a Rolen owner in my league. I don't know if LaRussa does this on a regular basis... it is only something I have heard people (including a few Cards fans) say.
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Postby byfrcp » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:41 am

superslugger616 wrote:What do you think will be Jeff Weaver's fantasy value now?


I gotta think he's gunna do better in the NL seeing as how no one can hit at all. On arguable the best offensive team in the NL he's gunna add some W's. I'm taking a flyer on him
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