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Can anyone explain how this is not an earned run?

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Can anyone explain how this is not an earned run?

Postby mcliffy2 » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:57 pm

Yes I'm in a tight HtH for ERA this week :)
How was Glavine not charged with an ER in this inning? The play-by-play is (w/ my notes in parentheses):

R Paulino walked. (Paulino is Glavine's responsibility)

Z Duke sacrificed to pitcher, R Paulino to second, Z Duke safe at first on error by pitcher T Glavine. (Duke is not his responsibility, 1 out for ER purposes)

A Heilman relieved T Glavine.

J Bautista hit by pitch, R Paulino to third, Z Duke to second.

J Wilson popped out to second. (2 outs for ER purposes)

S Casey walked, R Paulino scored, Z Duke to third, J Bautista to second. (Paulino scores, and was Glavine's responsibility, ER should be charged???)

J Bay grounded into fielder's choice to third, Z Duke scored, S Casey out at second, J Bautista to third.

F Sanchez singled to right, J Bautista scored, J Bay to second. 6 4
J Randa flied out to center.

Here is the definition and explanation of ER I'm finding, can't find why this wouldn't be an ER.


Rule 10.18 defines an earned run as "a run for which the pitcher is held accountable. In determining earned runs, the inning should be reconstructed wihtout the errors (which include catcher's interference) and passed balls, and the benefit of the doubt should always be given to the pitcher in determining which bases would have been reached by errorless play."
An earned run is charged every time a runner reached home base by

safe hits
sacrifice bunts
sacrifice flies
stolen bases
putouts
fielder's choices
bases on balls
hit batters
balks or wild pitches
before "fielding chances have been offered to put out the offensive team". This last clause means, basically, putouts plus errors, the idea being that the pitcher should not be held responsible for runs scoring after (e.g.) an error which should have been the third out.
No run scored by a runner who reaches base on an error (including after an error on a foul fly or by interference or obstruction) is earned.

No run scored by a runner who would have been put out by errorless play is earned.

No run scored by a runner whose advance is aided by

error
passed ball
defensive interference
obstruction
is earned unless the scorer judges that he would have scored without the misplay.
An error by the pitcher is scored just like an error by any other fielder in determining earned runs.

When fielding errors occur, give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher when determining assumed baserunner advancement.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:03 pm

Should be earned. They'll probably fix it by tomorrow.
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Re: Can anyone explain how this is not an earned run?

Postby NZF » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:04 pm

mcliffy2 wrote:Yes I'm in a tight HtH for ERA this week :)


:-? The week has only just started.
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Re: Can anyone explain how this is not an earned run?

Postby Mugrila » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:09 pm

NZF wrote:
mcliffy2 wrote:Yes I'm in a tight HtH for ERA this week :)


:-? The week has only just started.


That was my first thought too. :-D
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Postby rmande09 » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:10 pm

No, it is unearned. Duke reached base via error. When Bautista was hit by the pitch, Duke should not have been on first base. That would have kept Paulino at second. Then Wilson would pop out, and Casey would walk and load the bases. No run would have scored, therefore it is unearned.
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Postby mcliffy2 » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:44 pm

rmande09 wrote:No, it is unearned. Duke reached base via error. When Bautista was hit by the pitch, Duke should not have been on first base. That would have kept Paulino at second. Then Wilson would pop out, and Casey would walk and load the bases. No run would have scored, therefore it is unearned.


Nice catch...that is like a brain teaser they ask you at a job interview. X-I
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Re: Can anyone explain how this is not an earned run?

Postby mcliffy2 » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:47 pm

NZF wrote:
mcliffy2 wrote:Yes I'm in a tight HtH for ERA this week :)


:-? The week has only just started.


Already had 4 starts (Weaver, Beckett, Reyes, Arroyo) and my opponent has had 4 (Santana, Glavine, and Halladay and Schmidt in progress...). Oh and we each had a reliever melt down (Borowski for me, Coffey for him). He's pulling away with Halladay and Schmidt right now tho.... :-/
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Postby acsguitar » Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:53 pm

rmande09 wrote:No, it is unearned. Duke reached base via error. When Bautista was hit by the pitch, Duke should not have been on first base. That would have kept Paulino at second. Then Wilson would pop out, and Casey would walk and load the bases. No run would have scored, therefore it is unearned.


Interesting. I don't know the rule on it but yea that makes sense
I'm too lazy to make a sig at the moment
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Postby tinfoilxtouch » Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:18 pm

rmande09 wrote:No, it is unearned. Duke reached base via error. When Bautista was hit by the pitch, Duke should not have been on first base. That would have kept Paulino at second. Then Wilson would pop out, and Casey would walk and load the bases. No run would have scored, therefore it is unearned.


Exactly what I was thinking when I read it.
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Postby raiders_umpire » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:57 pm

This right here
No run scored by a runner whose advance is aided by

error
passed ball
defensive interference
obstruction
is earned unless the scorer judges that he would have scored without the misplay.
An error by the pitcher is scored just like an error by any other fielder in determining earned runs.
explains why the run is unearned.


Paulino was aided when Bautista was hit by the pitch. If not for the original error on the bunt, then Paulino would never have been forced to 3rd base on the HBP. Plus keep in mind the game was played in New York, so the stats on errors and such would be beneficial to the home team(Mets). ;-D If the exact same play had happened in Chicago or Florida, then there is a much better chance of Glavine being charged with an earned run in this situation.
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