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When will the Jays get rid of McGowan and Purcey?

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When do the Jays rid themselves of McGowan and Purcey?

this month
2
50%
before the end of the year
0
No votes
next year
0
No votes
2 years from now
0
No votes
they really wait too long, more then 2 years from now
2
50%
 
Total votes : 4

Postby flying27 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:12 pm

mweir145 wrote:McGowan hasn't been bypassed by those pitchers at all. He's the guy who came up to the majors last season, and struggled, just like both of them are right now. It's only a matter of time until both of them get sent down again, and Dustin is given another chance. From what I can tell, and there's no reason not to assume it (the Jays did give him a starting spot in AAA for a reason), he's still very much in their starting plans into the future, and possibly will return over the next few weeks to months. The only reason McGowan wasn't the #1 option was because they felt he wasn't major league ready yet, but it appears that Janssen and Taubenheim really weren't ready either.


Janssen and Taubenheim were called up to the majors much earlier then McGowan was last year, they have already made many more starts in the majors then McGowan did last year. Why? Since they have surpassed him. Why are they ready and he isnt? Because they have surpassed them. If it is not obvious to you, then you are just oblivious to reality.


Ricky Romero hasn't passed anybody yet. He's still facing single A talent.


AA, not A. He will be up with the team before McGowan, you will see, as usual I will be right and you will be wrong. It might take a few years, but that is still earlier then McGowan.


And as for Purcey, well we're talking about a guy who was drafted only 2 freaking years ago. He made it all the way up to AAA this year, but it appears like JP has realized he rushed him. To berade some guy because he hasn't made the major leagues in 2 years, well that is a joke my friend.


When as a 24 year old you have been demoted to AA ball from AAA ball, in an organization with suspect pitching depth. Yep really promising, to be a future waterbody maybe. So he entered the draft at a later age, that does not mean he should be evaluated more on his draft date, then his age, and his progress for his age.



Wait...did you just call Pat Tabler and Jamie Campbell baseball experts? Why? Because they have a job covering the team? And that makes them knowledgeable about these things because... :-?


They are baseball experts, they would not be hired to call 70% of Jays if they were not.

Ricciardi obviously felt that Taubenheim and Janssen were the more major league ready pitchers, I even remember him commenting on Janssen's mindset, and how it was different than most pitchers.


Exactly, both have surpassed McGowan, that is why they are ready for the majors and McGowan is not.



Randy Johnson, Jamie Moyer, Warren Spahn (he didn't have any real success until he was around 26).


I said between ages 27-29, not at age 25.


To blow past somebody, don't you have to have some kind of success at a higher level?

And again, this is a pretty dumb thing to argue about because all you can do is wait and see. Right now all you are doing is making outrageous claims.


Actually I know I am right already, but yeah we will wait and see me being right, and I will enjoy that, not sure about you.

The fact Janssen and Taubenheim are both struggling to so much right now and McGowan is still in AAA actually shows how superior they are as prospects to him.
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Postby sportsguy80 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:54 pm

you must be really dumb to think Pat Tabler and Jamie Campbell are baseball experts. Pat Tabler is a baseball anaylst and former player not an expert and Jamie Campbell is a commentator with some baseball knowledge those 2 aren't experts they are just guys who know the game of baseball well. In fact Jamie Campbell has had alot of different partners this season such as Rance Muliniks and Darren Fletcher im assuming you think they are experts to. Thos guys are just people giving their opinion because they use to be players.

And i don't even think you know anything about baseball with all these crazy things your talking about.
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Postby mweir145 » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:19 am

flying27 wrote:Janssen and Taubenheim were called up to the majors much earlier then McGowan was last year, they have already made many more starts in the majors then McGowan did last year. Why? Since they have surpassed him. Why are they ready and he isnt? Because they have surpassed them. If it is not obvious to you, then you are just oblivious to reality.

They were called up because of Chacin's injury and Towers' immense struggles. We didn't have pitching problems like that last year, and we were in the race well into late July. And you want to know the reason why they've made more starts than McGowan? Well that's partly because the Jays simply don't really have any other options, unless they want to go pick up Kyle Snyders and trade for Jason Johnsons, and because McGowan was mostly used in the stretch run when this team was out of it. I'm not the one who's oblivious to reality buddy, your hate is getting in the way of actually understand what's going on here.


AA, not A. He will be up with the team before McGowan, you will see, as usual I will be right and you will be wrong. It might take a few years, but that is still earlier then McGowan.

If I'm not mistaken he was called up to AA a week or so ago, so he's mostly faced A talent. And I highly doubt, Romero will be up with the team for any major amount of time in 2007, unless he's made a lot of progress and decide to bring him up in September. And why are you always right? WTF? When have you been right about anything? I hate people that feel they are so much better and more knowledgeable than others when they have proven absolutely nothing. It pisses me off. :-t



When as a 24 year old you have been demoted to AA ball from AAA ball, in an organization with suspect pitching depth. Yep really promising, to be a future waterbody maybe. So he entered the draft at a later age, that does not mean he should be evaluated more on his draft date, then his age, and his progress for his age.

He was demoted because JP realized they brought him up too fast. Can't you get this through your thick skull? Players get demoted, IT HAPPENS. They go back down to the lower level, and work on what they need to have worked on. You're the kind of guy who would have written off Roy Halladay because he was demoted to the minors 7 years ago. Open your mind for a second and realize it doesn't mean Purcey is going to turn out like crap. He was drafted 2 years ago, that's absolutely nothing for pitching prospects.

They are baseball experts, they would not be hired to call 70% of Jays if they were not.

So you're saying all baseball announcers are experts in the sport of baseball? Wow...you might be dumber than I thought you were.

I said between ages 27-29, not at age 25.

Johnson didn't break into the majors for real until he was 27. He didn't even really have a great season until he was 30.

Moyer broke in as a starter when he was 25, but didn't have his first good season until a few years later. So kind of my bad there, but keep in mind I didn't look it up to see if I was right before posting.

Spahn broke into the big leagues when he was 27. And I think we know what happened then.

But either way, those were just the big names I knew off the top of my head. I'm sure if I went through the history of major league baseball, I could find several pitchers who broke in when they were 27 and above. But I don't plan to. Not to prove this crap to you.


Actually I know I am right already, but yeah we will wait and see me being right, and I will enjoy that, not sure about you.
The fact Janssen and Taubenheim are both struggling to so much right now and McGowan is still in AAA actually shows how superior they are as prospects to him.


Again, Taubenheim was given another shot to start because of his recent performance on Canada Day. He blew it. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see McGowan start in Taubenheim's next scheduled game.

Janssen is still with the team because of what he did a month ago. That's the only reason they are waiting it out for him. Though it's also because they basically have nobody else (with the exception of McGowan who will be up soon I assume to take Taubenheim's spot).

And there you go again with that superiority complex. Why are you so sure you're going to be right about this? You've basically said none of them will be able to hold a job for over a month on any team in Major League Baseball in the next 5 years. Now that's an outrageous claim, yet you still think you will be right. What I can say though, is that I will thoroughly enjoy the moment McGowan gets called up to this team. If you're a real Jays fan, you would enjoy it too. I personally think it's crazy to write off and root agaisnt two 24 year old pitchers, but whatever...
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Postby sportsguy80 » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:55 am

Weir its not worth arguing with this guy. He seems to no little about baseball, he is a close minded person because he believes if a player gets demoted they are crap and should be traded or let go, and he has a bunc h of crazy theories about how we should trade the farm away
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Postby flying27 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:04 am

mweir145 wrote:They were called up because of Chacin's injury and Towers' immense struggles. We didn't have pitching problems like that last year, and we were in the race well into late July. And you want to know the reason why they've made more starts than McGowan? Well that's partly because the Jays simply don't really have any other options, unless they want to go pick up Kyle Snyders and trade for Jason Johnsons, and because McGowan was mostly used in the stretch run when this team was out of it. I'm not the one who's oblivious to reality buddy, your hate is getting in the way of actually understand what's going on here.


That is not the point. The point they are up with the Blue Jays and McGowan is still in AAA. Why? They have surpassed him which you are blind to.

If I'm not mistaken he was called up to AA a week or so ago, so he's mostly faced A talent. And I highly doubt, Romero will be up with the team for any major amount of time in 2007, unless he's made a lot of progress and decide to bring him up in September. And why are you always right? WTF? When have you been right about anything? I hate people that feel they are so much better and more knowledgeable than others when they have proven absolutely nothing. It pisses me off. :-t


I am almost always right on my sporting predictions. As for Romero he is in AA now, there is no indication he is being sent down anytime soon, so calling him an A pitcher is innaccurate.


He was demoted because JP realized they brought him up too fast. Can't you get this through your thick skull? Players get demoted, IT HAPPENS. They go back down to the lower level, and work on what they need to have worked on. You're the kind of guy who would have written off Roy Halladay because he was demoted to the minors 7 years ago. Open your mind for a second and realize it doesn't mean Purcey is going to turn out like crap. He was drafted 2 years ago, that's absolutely nothing for pitching prospects.


Halladay was in the majors full time as a 22-year old, before being briefly sent down as a 24 year old and coming back up. Dumb comparision.


So you're saying all baseball announcers are experts in the sport of baseball? Wow...you might be dumber than I thought you were.


Somebody who honestly thinks a pitcher who has been blown past by pitchers his own age, and is struggling to be consistent in AAA baseball, and has only one real pitch right now, has a huge future in the majors calling me dumb. Now that is rich.




Again, Taubenheim was given another shot to start because of his recent performance on Canada Day. He blew it. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see McGowan start in Taubenheim's next scheduled game.


The fact one mere good game would be enough for the team to change their mind on bringing McGowan up to replace Taubenheim after a string of bad starts, just shows how far above McGowan Ty is in the Jays brass minds. No McGowan wont be up, Ty will be there until Chacin comes back, given your distorted sense of reality I am sure you will continue thinking Dustin is coming up though.



What I can say though, is that I will thoroughly enjoy the moment McGowan gets called up to this team.


I will enjoy seeing him sent back down again quickly when he does as well, I actually think he will be an annual September call up, that will be his annual routine, April-August in the minors, September in the majors, back to April-August in the minors. Sorry annual September call ups are not regulars.
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Postby mweir145 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:57 am

flying27 wrote:That is not the point. The point they are up with the Blue Jays and McGowan is still in AAA. Why? They have surpassed him which you are blind to.

They were called up because they were thought to be more major-league ready than McGowan, and at the time, they still had Dustin in a relief role. It doesn't make any sense to just bring a guy up to start when he hasn't pitched in that role at any point in the year yet.

I am almost always right on my sporting predictions. As for Romero he is in AA now, there is no indication he is being sent down anytime soon, so calling him an A pitcher is innaccurate.

Romero has primarily faced A talent, that's why I'm calling him an A pitcher. He was recently called up about a week and a half ago. He's not even close to being farther in development than McGowan at this point in his career.

And if you're "almost always right" like you claim (with no proof I point out), then isn't there the slight chance that you will be wrong? ;-7


Halladay was in the majors full time as a 22-year old, before being briefly sent down as a 24 year old and coming back up. Dumb comparision.

I never compared to the two situations... I just would have liked to have seen your reaction to Halladay. I would bet it wouldn't be much different than this scenario, knowing the hate you have for young pitchers in this organization that take longer than you want them to.


Somebody who honestly thinks a pitcher who has been blown past by pitchers his own age, and is struggling to be consistent in AAA baseball, and has only one real pitch right now, has a huge future in the majors calling me dumb. Now that is rich.

So you've given up the whole "baseball announcers are smart experts thing," and go on to attacking me once again. Well alright, nice to know you can back up what you say. ;-D




The fact one mere good game would be enough for the team to change their mind on bringing McGowan up to replace Taubenheim after a string of bad starts, just shows how far above McGowan Ty is in the Jays brass minds. No McGowan wont be up, Ty will be there until Chacin comes back, given your distorted sense of reality I am sure you will continue thinking Dustin is coming up though.

Ty isn't going to be starting for this team anymore. It appears they will go with a last shot at Tallet or Marcum before turning to McGowan. You are right about one thing, JP hasn't been very confident at all in McGowan for some time now. That doesn't mean he won't be given another chance, however...and it doesn't mean his career is over.
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Postby flying27 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:28 pm

mweir145 wrote:That is They were called up because they were thought to be more major-league ready than McGowan, and at the time, they still had Dustin in a relief role. It doesn't make any sense to just bring a guy up to start when he hasn't pitched in that role at any point in the year yet.


That makes sense at first, but once Dustin had enough starts to be stretched out as a starter again, he was still in AAA, and they were still with the Jays starting. So yes indeed Janssen and Taubenheim have far surpassed McGowan, probably for good.

I never compared to the two situations... I just would ave liked to have seen your reaction to Halladay. I would bet it wouldn't be much different than this scenario, knowing the hate you have for young pitchers in this organization that take longer than you want them to.


My reaction to Halladay being sent down was totally different. He atleast has made it to the majors as a 22 and 23 year old, not somebody who is unable to crack the lineup as a 24 year with the pitching situation in shambles. I never thought Halladay was a career minor leaguer like McGowan, never.





Ty isn't going to be starting for this team anymore. It appears they will go with a last shot at Tallet or Marcum before turning to McGowan. You are right about one thing, JP hasn't been very confident at all in McGowan for some time now. That doesn't mean he won't be given another chance, however...and it doesn't mean his career is over.


Either way McGowan is not an option for them obviously. They scramp around for another option, Marcum who has been a reliever almost all year or Tallet a 30-something journeyman reliever are better options then McGowan according to JP, yep that says it all.

McGowan might get another chance in 2011 though, I agree. Also his career is not over, he has a long career as a AAA pitcher ahead of him.
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Postby mweir145 » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:55 am

It's pointless to keep argueing about this, you keep bringing up the same points that I have already disputed. The only thing we can really do now is wait and see.
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Postby flying27 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:20 pm

Fair enough, unfortunately I doubt we will be able to track McGowan's career in the Toronto organization through to the end of 2010, as he likely will be traded away by then. However I will be happy to track him never being a regular in the majors through to the end of 2010(remember I said the earlier he might make it is the start of the 2011 season)just to see me being right on McGowan. ;-D
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Postby flying27 » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:09 pm

Regarding McGowan it has been brought to my awareness that he is out of options next year, and if he does not make the team out of spring training, and stay up with the big league team he will have to clear waivers and he will definitely be picked up on waivers. So I guess I have my answer, McGowan is gone from the Jays organization next year. WHOOPEEE!!!
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