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When will the Jays get rid of McGowan and Purcey?

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When do the Jays rid themselves of McGowan and Purcey?

this month
2
50%
before the end of the year
0
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next year
0
No votes
2 years from now
0
No votes
they really wait too long, more then 2 years from now
2
50%
 
Total votes : 4

When will the Jays get rid of McGowan and Purcey?

Postby flying27 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:23 pm

When will the Blue Jays either trade away or dump McGowan and Purcey altogether? They have no future with the team, think of it he has been moved to starter, but Burnett, Halladay, and Chacin are all stuck with the team for many years to come, Janssen and Taubenheim have blown past McGowan, and the two Romeros, Ricky and Davis are close to passing McGowan by. So there will be no room for him in the rotation until atleast 2011. He is worthless to keep. So when will they dump him, and try to get something for him before it is too late?
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Postby mweir145 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:38 pm

Why do you hate these two so much (I've seen you post other comments about how "useless" they are), and why is it so necessary that the team gets rid of them? I'm sure if a good trade comes up, JP will deal them if he feels the need too.

There are only 2 Jays starters that are likely here until 2011, and I'm being generous by even counting Burnett because he can opt-out of his contract after only 3. Chacin has proven nothing, and pitched terribly during his time up this year. To say that his job is secure through 2011 with the Jays, you must not watch this team very much. The Jays also don't see Taubenheim's future in Toronto as a starter, they see him as more of a long reliever. Janssen may have a shot long-term on this rotation, but it will likely be nothing more than as a #4 or 5 starter.

McGowan by the way, was set to be called up for Thursday's start agaisnt KC, but that was postponed because of Taubenheim's good outing last Saturday. I, however, wouldn't be surprised to see Dustin up and starting with this team in the next few weeks.
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Postby flying27 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:57 pm

McGowan was never coming up this week, that is a lie. If he was coming up he would have been called up, he wasnt since he was never coming up. Dont start telling lies in a desperate attempt to prove your point. I would bet you $500 McGowan wont be a regular in the majors anywhere(he will be traded by then, probably multiple times)until atleast 2011.
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Postby mweir145 » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:23 am

flying27 wrote:McGowan was never coming up this week, that is a lie. If he was coming up he would have been called up, he wasnt since he was never coming up. Dont start telling lies in a desperate attempt to prove your point. I would bet you $500 McGowan wont be a regular in the majors anywhere(he will be traded by then, probably multiple times)until atleast 2011.

There is no point to be proved here. This wasn't some rumour that I randomly made up, this is something that had been reported in basically every Toronto paper until Taubenheim made his good start on Saturday (Gibbons said it would likely be Ty's only one).

And I can gurantee you McGowan will pitch in this league before 2011, and I have no problem betting anything on it. Again, I wouldn't even be surprised if he's up by the end of the month.

I've gotta say though the hate you have for these two guys is quite astounding, it's almost Barry Bonds like.
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Postby kimchi_chigae » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:22 pm

I have also read about McGowan being called up to start on Thursday against KC, but as weir already mentioned, that is not happening anymore.

I doubt the Jays will get anything of value back for McGowan or/and Purcey. McGowan's value is probably as low as it will ever get. He is starting again now for the Skychiefs which is a good move IMO. Purcey pitched really well last year, but his walks seem to have caught up with him.

When you think of these two...think...Alex Rios. :-) Didn't we read people saying the Jays should trade him before the year started so we could still get "something" in return? ;-)
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Postby mweir145 » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:35 pm

kimchi_chigae wrote:I have also read about McGowan being called up to start on Thursday against KC, but as weir already mentioned, that is not happening anymore.

I doubt the Jays will get anything of value back for McGowan or/and Purcey. McGowan's value is probably as low as it will ever get. He is starting again now for the Skychiefs which is a good move IMO. Purcey pitched really well last year, but his walks seem to have caught up with him.

When you think of these two...think...Alex Rios. :-) Didn't we read people saying the Jays should trade him before the year started so we could still get "something" in return? ;-)

Rios was doing even worse than these two. I for one didn't believe in him any longer (though I never hated him like this guy), Alex sure showed me.

Both of these two pitchers are still very young, and do have a lot of potential. Dealing them right now wouldn't make any sense unless we were getting substantial return out of it. And with both of their values being at what will likely be all time lows, the chance of getting something good back in a deal is unlikely.
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Postby flying27 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:49 pm

First of all let me define what deems being a "regular" in the majors for me:

1)Staying with a major league team for atleast 10 weeks straight.
2)Staying with a major league team when there is nobody in your role(starter, reliever, or closer)injured anymore.

So no you wont see McGowan or Purcey become a regular with the Jays, or another team, depending whether either/both is traded or not by then, until atleast 2011.

McGowan and Purcey are already 24 and not even close to being major league pitchers, and pitchers their own age like Janssen and Taubenheim have blown past them, Rios was a major league player at 22 who struggled a bit in the majors but stayed up. The comparision to Rios is ludricious.



As for being called up if JP really had wanted to bring McGowan up he would have, one good start from Taubenheim after numerous poor starts would not have offset those plans. McGowan coming up was just stirring the pot, a bunch of hype, it was never going to come and never will happen anytime in the near future.


Alot of potential, what a bunch of baloney.
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Postby mweir145 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:09 pm

flying27 wrote:First of all let me define what deems being a "regular" in the majors for me:

1)Staying with a major league team for atleast 10 weeks straight.
2)Staying with a major league team when there is nobody in your role(starter, reliever, or closer)injured anymore.

So no you wont see McGowan or Purcey become a regular with the Jays, or another team, depending whether either/both is traded or not by then, until atleast 2011.

And I said they would. It's as simple as that. Your only reasoning that they won't is that they are too old. But that's just a bunch of BS. Older "prospects" have come to the big leagues then these two. Both of them certainly aren't lacking the stuff to be big league pitchers, it is more or less their control that has held them back (along with McGowan's major surgery). Though recently in AAA, Dustin seems to have fixed that problem.

McGowan and Purcey are already 24 and not even close to being major league pitchers, and pitchers their own age like Janssen and Taubenheim have blown past them, Rios was a major league player at 22 who struggled a bit in the majors but stayed up. The comparision to Rios is ludricious.

Both of them have blown past them? They seem to be doing terribly right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them were sent down very soon (with McGowan being sent up).

As for being called up if JP really had wanted to bring McGowan up he would have, one good start from Taubenheim after numerous poor starts would not have offset those plans. McGowan coming up was just stirring the pot, a bunch of hype, it was never going to come and never will happen anytime in the near future.

That appears to be what happened, and it certainly looks like JP made the wrong decision here. Stirring the pot... A bunch of hype... Why would Jays management do say these things for those purposes alone? If Dustin is as bad as you say he is, then wouldn't they not want to get anybody's hopes up? My bet is, barring a trade, McGowan will be up within weeks to take the 5th starting spot.
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Postby flying27 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:06 pm

And I said they would. It's as simple as that. Your only reasoning that they won't is that they are too old. But that's just a bunch of BS. Older "prospects" have come to the big leagues then these two. Both of them certainly aren't lacking the stuff to be big league pitchers, it is more or less their control that has held them back (along with McGowan's major surgery). Though recently in AAA, Dustin seems to have fixed that problem.


Fine, you will be wrong, it is as simple as that. You are far over
simplifying my reasoning as well. My reasoning was not simply that they are too old. My reasoning was they are now 24, and have been bypassed by pitchers younger then them like Jansse and Taubenheim, and are soon to be bypassed by much younger pitchers then themselves like Ricky Romero. My reasoning was that at age 24 they apparently are so incredably weak that even with the Jays in a desperate desperate pitching situation, they still arent considered serious options to be brought up, and in fact Purcey is even in AA now. My reasoning was that at age 24, a pitcher younger them like Taubenheim is performing so poorly in MLB, and they are still not thought of as a better alternative. Did you watch the last game on Sportsnet? Baseball experts Pat Tabler and Jamie Campbell said there, "there is no better option in the farm system right now." So McGowan at age 24 and Purcey at age 24, or not considered as good an alternative as even Taubenheim, who is younger then them, performing almost embarassingly with the Jays. My reasoning was that being bypassed by pitchers younger then them who arent even that good, there wont be room for them on the Jays roster for a long time.

It is not strictly down to age, it is down to age and the situation combined, and the evidence it bears out. If they were prospects on a team stocked with quality starting pitching, and more experienced guys it might be different.

No contrary to your belief it is very rare to not make it to the majors say until age 27/28/29 and have any success when you dont make it until that late. Bring me examples if you are so sure though.


Both of them have blown past them? They seem to be doing terribly right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them were sent down very soon (with McGowan being sent up).


Yes both Janssen and Taubenheim have blown past McGowan and Purcey. You will NEVER see McGowan or Purcey over either Janssen or Taubenheim for more then a 6-week span ever again, mark my words.

As That appears to be what happened, and it certainly looks like JP made the wrong decision here. Stirring the pot... A bunch of hype... Why would Jays management do say these things for those purposes alone? If Dustin is as bad as you say he is, then wouldn't they not want to get anybody's hopes up? My bet is, barring a trade, McGowan will be up within weeks to take the 5th starting spot.


The Jays management would throw the McGowan fanatics who probably are confused why a first round draft pick is so horrable, there is "no room" for him on the Jays roster, now at age 24, when the pitching staff is a total mess. The little "he might be called up" is a bone to get the McGowan fans giddy that he might be close when he really is not, and every couple months they probably throw that bone, when there really is no intention to bring him up.
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Postby mweir145 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:42 pm

flying27 wrote:Fine, you will be wrong, it is as simple as that. You are far over
simplifying my reasoning as well. My reasoning was not simply that they are too old. My reasoning was they are now 24, and have been bypassed by pitchers younger then them like Jansse and Taubenheim, and are soon to be bypassed by much younger pitchers then themselves like Ricky Romero. My reasoning was that at age 24 they apparently are so incredably weak that even with the Jays in a desperate desperate pitching situation, they still arent considered serious options to be brought up, and in fact Purcey is even in AA now.

McGowan hasn't been bypassed by those pitchers at all. He's the guy who came up to the majors last season, and struggled, just like both of them are right now. It's only a matter of time until both of them get sent down again, and Dustin is given another chance. From what I can tell, and there's no reason not to assume it (the Jays did give him a starting spot in AAA for a reason), he's still very much in their starting plans into the future, and possibly will return over the next few weeks to months. The only reason McGowan wasn't the #1 option was because they felt he wasn't major league ready yet, but it appears that Janssen and Taubenheim really weren't ready either.

Ricky Romero hasn't passed anybody yet. He's still facing single A talent.

And as for Purcey, well we're talking about a guy who was drafted only 2 freaking years ago. He made it all the way up to AAA this year, but it appears like JP has realized he rushed him. To berade some guy because he hasn't made the major leagues in 2 years, well that is a joke my friend.

My reasoning was that at age 24, a pitcher younger them like Taubenheim is performing so poorly in MLB, and they are still not thought of as a better alternative. Did you watch the last game on Sportsnet? Baseball experts Pat Tabler and Jamie Campbell said there, "there is no better option in the farm system right now." So McGowan at age 24 and Purcey at age 24, or not considered as good an alternative as even Taubenheim, who is younger then them, performing almost embarassingly with the Jays. My reasoning was that being bypassed by pitchers younger then them who arent even that good, there wont be room for them on the Jays roster for a long time.

Wait...did you just call Pat Tabler and Jamie Campbell baseball experts? Why? Because they have a job covering the team? And that makes them knowledgeable about these things because... :-?

Ricciardi obviously felt that Taubenheim and Janssen were the more major league ready pitchers, I even remember him commenting on Janssen's mindset, and how it was different than most pitchers. He doesn't want to rush these guys again, like he did to League last year, and to McGowan in August and September. The fact that Brandon League hasn't been called up this year so show that much. By your evaluation system, League has no shot at being a major leaguer. I mean the bullpen is one of the worst in the AL, and they are basically throwing out journeyman in the 7th and 8th innings with regularity, but yet we see no League... Does that mean he's terrible? Does that mean he has no potential? No of course it doesn't. It just means Ricciardi doesn't want to rush the guy, and is actually thinking about the future of his team, and the future of his players, instead of throwing rookie pitchers out there again to be hit.

No contrary to your belief it is very rare to not make it to the majors say until age 27/28/29 and have any success when you dont make it until that late. Bring me examples if you are so sure though.

Randy Johnson, Jamie Moyer, Warren Spahn (he didn't have any real success until he was around 26).

Those are just a few names off the top of my head though, I'm sure I could name more with a bit of research.

Yes both Janssen and Taubenheim have blown past McGowan and Purcey. You will NEVER see McGowan or Purcey over either Janssen or Taubenheim for more then a 6-week span ever again, mark my words.

To blow past somebody, don't you have to have some kind of success at a higher level?

And again, this is a pretty dumb thing to argue about because all you can do is wait and see. Right now all you are doing is making outrageous claims.

The Jays management would throw the McGowan fanatics who probably are confused why a first round draft pick is so horrable, there is "no room" for him on the Jays roster, now at age 24, when the pitching staff is a total mess. The little "he might be called up" is a bone to get the McGowan fans giddy that he might be close when he really is not, and every couple months they probably throw that bone, when there really is no intention to bring him up.

You like making up these crazy theories don't you?
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