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Postby DSheppard » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:16 am

Someone said it takes more then a glove to make the all star game about matthews.

Uh, hes hitting .336 and a .915 ops from the centerfield position with good D.

Now perhaps this particular year thats not worthy, but in general those are all star stats.

and as for the ballpark, last year he hit .219 at ameriquest and .290 on the road.

before tonight, this year is home ops was .020 lower. his good night tonight bupmed it up, but its still similar. .323 on the road, with half of his homeruns (4 at home, 4 on the road).

again, this year there might be someone who deserves to be on the team more but none the less... hes having an all star caliber year. who knows, he may hit 250 the rest of the way but that doesnt matter for this game.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:14 am

Wow, Schilling not even on the ballot for vote-ins. Do you guys think Ozzie didn't bother with pitchers pitching that weekend because they wouldn't be available? I'm not sure what guys of the current team wouldn't be available but Schilling is starting on Sunday.
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Postby dissent » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:52 am

teddy ballgame wrote:Wow, Schilling not even on the ballot for vote-ins. Do you guys think Ozzie didn't bother with pitchers pitching that weekend because they wouldn't be available? I'm not sure what guys of the current team wouldn't be available but Schilling is starting on Sunday.

He did say that he eliminated pitchers that had Sunday starts in case he needs them to pitch more than one inning. Frankly, I think that's silly. The best should be elected and if it doesn't work with their pitching rotation, they can pass for someone else. That seems to happen every year anyway.
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Postby rmande09 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:54 am

davidmarver wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
rmande09 wrote:OK, let me know when Hafner wins the AL MVP award. Travis Hafner, the DH, for a team that won't even finish 2nd in the division... Good luck!


Chances are he won't, and i'm not predicting he does. However, you will be hardpressed to find anyone better in the AL so far, hence he's my mvp right now. If i had a vote, i would have no problem voting for him. Places in standings is not in the criteria.

I think Hafner would certainly be up there on my list, but I think Joe Mauer would be my MVP pick, based on the interpretation of the word value.

Mauer is so ridiculously above the average catcher that the value he carries, having a .996 OPS as a catcher, while being the second best defensive catcher in the AL would be a much larger upgrade to every team than if you gave Hafner to every team in the AL, simply because plenty of teams already have comparable sluggers at the DH position.

Mauer is 1st in the AL in AVG and OBP, 4th in RC/27, 2nd in Win Shares, 3rd in GPA, etc. And on top of that, Mauer has probably had the most productive outs of anyone in the game; he's popped up just once all season and has struckout just 27 times, half the amount the other sluggers do.

Granted, I don't think voters will give the nod to either Hafner or Mauer, but those would be my 1/2 in the AL at this point.


I agree with how you interpret the award. If Mauer was on any other team, he would make them 10X better, and if he was not on the Twins, they would more than likely be in the AL Central Cellar (or 4th - it'd be hard to be worse than KC).

I still think that unless you're having an unreal season on offense that the MVP winner should be on a successful team, not from a cellar-dweller. Hafner is a very good player and should be on the AS team, but not for a guy like Sizemore. I'd say he should definitely be there in front of Konerko.
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Postby mweir145 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:05 pm

teddy ballgame wrote:Wow, Schilling not even on the ballot for vote-ins. Do you guys think Ozzie didn't bother with pitchers pitching that weekend because they wouldn't be available? I'm not sure what guys of the current team wouldn't be available but Schilling is starting on Sunday.

Halladay's pitching on Sunday, and he's still eligible to go an inning in Tuesday's game (though he likely can't start it). Schilling just looks like a geniune snub.
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Postby mweir145 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:15 pm

rmande09 wrote:
ARod won the MVP for a few reasons.

1. He put up the best offensive year in the game, hands down. He followed up his 2002 showing (probably top 5 offensive seasons in the history) with another spectacular year.

2. He was a Gold Glove SS who hit .300 with 47 homers, driving in 118, scoring 124, and stealing 17. He played a position, the hardest position on the diamond, won a Gold Glove, and was the best offensive player in baseball.

3. There was no other clear cut potential MVP award winner on any playoff team, let alone any 2nd or 3rd place teams. The most likely to win an MVP award on a playoff team was Posada on the Yankees, and his numbers were not remotely close to that of ARod's.

So you see, there are reasons for ARod's MVP trophy in '03. It is supposed to be Most Valuable Player, but in the case of that season, Rodriguez was far and away the best player that season that it had to be given to him.

Actually, I personally thought the winner that year should have been Carlos Delgado. He had 42 HR, 145 RBIs, and 117 R. He also hit for a better average than ARod and had a better OPS. Carlos also played for a far better team than ARod that season. Delgado's pretty much always been a solid defense first baseman, and the 2003 season was no different than the norm for him. Despite all this, ARod won the MVP vote in a landslide, and in some parts of the U.S. Delgado wasn't even in some writers' top 5. Playing for a Canadian team may have been a huge factor in why his season went unnoticed in some parts. That's a big reason why I think Vernon Wells will have his work cut out for him if he wants to be MVP this year.
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Postby rmande09 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:49 pm

mweir145 wrote:
rmande09 wrote:
ARod won the MVP for a few reasons.

1. He put up the best offensive year in the game, hands down. He followed up his 2002 showing (probably top 5 offensive seasons in the history) with another spectacular year.

2. He was a Gold Glove SS who hit .300 with 47 homers, driving in 118, scoring 124, and stealing 17. He played a position, the hardest position on the diamond, won a Gold Glove, and was the best offensive player in baseball.

3. There was no other clear cut potential MVP award winner on any playoff team, let alone any 2nd or 3rd place teams. The most likely to win an MVP award on a playoff team was Posada on the Yankees, and his numbers were not remotely close to that of ARod's.

So you see, there are reasons for ARod's MVP trophy in '03. It is supposed to be Most Valuable Player, but in the case of that season, Rodriguez was far and away the best player that season that it had to be given to him.

Actually, I personally thought the winner that year should have been Carlos Delgado. He had 42 HR, 145 RBIs, and 117 R. He also hit for a better average than ARod and had a better OPS. Carlos also played for a far better team than ARod that season. Delgado's pretty much always been a solid defense first baseman, and the 2003 season was no different than the norm for him. Despite all this, ARod won the MVP vote in a landslide, and in some parts of the U.S. Delgado wasn't even in some writers' top 5. Playing for a Canadian team may have been a huge factor in why his season went unnoticed in some parts. That's a big reason why I think Vernon Wells will have his work cut out for him if he wants to be MVP this year.


ARod hit more homers, scored more runs, and stole 17 more bases, on top of the fact that he was a Gold Glove winner at a position not known for its offense. He put those numbers up as a GOLD GLOVE SS - which is why he won the MVP award.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:55 pm

rmande09 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
rmande09 wrote:
ARod won the MVP for a few reasons.

1. He put up the best offensive year in the game, hands down. He followed up his 2002 showing (probably top 5 offensive seasons in the history) with another spectacular year.

2. He was a Gold Glove SS who hit .300 with 47 homers, driving in 118, scoring 124, and stealing 17. He played a position, the hardest position on the diamond, won a Gold Glove, and was the best offensive player in baseball.

3. There was no other clear cut potential MVP award winner on any playoff team, let alone any 2nd or 3rd place teams. The most likely to win an MVP award on a playoff team was Posada on the Yankees, and his numbers were not remotely close to that of ARod's.

So you see, there are reasons for ARod's MVP trophy in '03. It is supposed to be Most Valuable Player, but in the case of that season, Rodriguez was far and away the best player that season that it had to be given to him.

Actually, I personally thought the winner that year should have been Carlos Delgado. He had 42 HR, 145 RBIs, and 117 R. He also hit for a better average than ARod and had a better OPS. Carlos also played for a far better team than ARod that season. Delgado's pretty much always been a solid defense first baseman, and the 2003 season was no different than the norm for him. Despite all this, ARod won the MVP vote in a landslide, and in some parts of the U.S. Delgado wasn't even in some writers' top 5. Playing for a Canadian team may have been a huge factor in why his season went unnoticed in some parts. That's a big reason why I think Vernon Wells will have his work cut out for him if he wants to be MVP this year.


ARod hit more homers, scored more runs, and stole 17 more bases, on top of the fact that he was a Gold Glove winner at a position not known for its offense. He put those numbers up as a GOLD GLOVE SS - which is why he won the MVP award.

But he still did this all on a LAST PLACE team. If you're the most valuable player of a last place team, you can't be very valuable because your team still sucked. The Rangers are fully capable of finishing in last place without ARod on their team. He didn't help them do anything.
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Postby rmande09 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:31 pm

teddy ballgame wrote:
But he still did this all on a LAST PLACE team. If you're the most valuable player of a last place team, you can't be very valuable because your team still sucked. The Rangers are fully capable of finishing in last place without ARod on their team. He didn't help them do anything.


I agree. But there was NO ONE on a winning team that really deserved the MVP. Like I said, Posada was the closest to an actual MVP that year, and he put up something like .280 - 100 - 30 - 100 - 0. Quite frankly, those numbers do NOT warrant an MVP.

Someone made a case for the Blue Jays' Carlos Delgado, but again, not a winning team. "The Blue Jays had a good year." Ya, but they finished in third and did not make the playoffs. "Without Delgado, they would have had a worse record." Well, without ARod, Texas probably would have been around .350, far worse than their .431 WP. Once you get outside of playoff contenders, or teams that contended for a playoff spot the whole year, I feel the MVP should be given to the best overall player for the year. I am one for the MVP being on a winning team, as you can see, but I also feel they should deserve the MVP. There was not a player on the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Twins, the White Sox, the A's, or the Mariners (the 6 teams that contended for playoff spots in 2003) that actually deserved the MVP award. So you give it to the best player that season, and it's hard to find a better player when you have a Gold Glove SS who put up the numbers ARod did.

Point in case: If no one was putting up MVP-type numbers for contenders thus far in 2006, then I would (potentially) agree that Hafner deserves the award, although he does not play a position and that is a big negative to me, and clearly the voters, as Ortiz did not win the award last year when he truly was, far and away, the reason the Sox were in the playoffs.
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Postby NIU Ricky » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:36 pm

Mark Redman 5-4 5.59era 1.51whip .293baa 30k 30bb in 74 ip makes the AL all-star team

and either

Travis Hafner .312ba 22hr 66rbi 61r .631slg
or
Francisco Liriano 9-1 1.99era 94k 20bb 0.97whip in 81.1ip
gets snubbed!

What a joke!

MLB should abolish the every team gets a representative rule when the Royals have no deserving canditates :-t :-t :-t :-t
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