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Postby bigh0rt » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:46 am

DK wrote:I know nothing about football, but I would go with Montana.


This'll be the last post I make, as I've already spoiled HOOTIE'S thread enough by diverging it from the original intention (then again, the A-Rod bashers, as pointed out by wrs, had nothing to say... so the point is pretty much moot now -- again HOOTIE proves that he rules)

This baseball group is a group that loves records... well, here's some...

#1 Career Pass Att. - 8,358 (2nd - 7,350 - Elway)
#1 Career Pass. Yds. - 61,361 (2nd - 51,475 - Elway)
#1 Rookie Passer Rating - 96.0 (2nd - 88.2 - Cook)
#1 Season Passing Yds. - 5,084 (2nd - 4,802 - Fouts / 3rd - 4,746 - Marino)
#1 400-Yard Passing Games, Season - 4 (2nd - 3 - Marino)
#1 3,000-Yard Passing Seasons - 14 (2nd - 13 - Elway)
#1 Most 4+ TD Passing Games, Career - 21 - (2nd - 17 - Unitas)
#1 Most 20+ TD Passing Seasons, Career - 13 (2nd - 8 - Unitas)
#1 Most Seasons Leading League, Att. - 5 (2nd - 4 - Unitas)
#1 Career Completions - 4,967 (2nd - 4,123 - Elway)
#1 Career TD Passes - 420 (2nd - 342 - Tarkenton)
#1 Rookie Comp. Pct. - 58.43 (2nd - 57.14 - McMahon)
#1 400-Yard Passing Games, Career - 63 (2nd - 51 - Fouts)
#1 Most Seasons Leading League, Comp. - 6 (2nd - 5 - Baugh)
#1 Most 4+ TD Passing Games, Season - 6 (2nd - 5 - Marino)
#1 Fewest Games to reach 100 TD Passes - 44
#1 Fewest Games to reach 200 TD Passes - 89 (2nd - 107 - Favre)
#1 Fewest Games to reach 300 TD Passes - 157 (2nd - 217 - Tarkenton)
#1 Most 3,000+ Yd. Consecutive Seasons - 9 - (2nd - 7 - Elway)
#1 Most 4+ TD Pass Games, Career - 21 - (2nd - 17 - Unitas)
#1 Most 40+ TD Pass Seasons, Career - 2 (2nd - 1 - Manning/Warner)
#1 Most Consecutive Seasons, 20+ TD Pass - 10
#3 Most Competions, Season - 385 (1st - 404 - Moon)
#2/3 Most TD Passes, Season - 48, 44
#3 Most TD Passes, Rookie - 20
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Postby teddy ballgame » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:50 am

Xtreemes wrote:It's Montana and Elway in my opinion

Same. Montana, Elway, Unitas, Starr, Bradshaw, Greise, and when it's all said and done even Manning and Brady will be right up there.

They may or may not be better than Marino but you can argue for any of them. You said that few people say Marino is not the best, which is the main thing I'm arguing. I just did a search for "Greatest All Time Quarterbacks" and Marino is yet to be on the top of any poll or list. He's up there and is most definately in the discussion...and may very well could be #1 but again, to say few people disagree he's number 1 is far from the truth.
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Postby DK » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:52 am

OK, cool. Like I said I don't know anything. :D
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Postby Xtreemes » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:55 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Xtreemes wrote:It's Montana and Elway in my opinion


Then you'd probably also rather have Derek Jeter than Alex Rodriguez?


No, I wouldn't. If the Yankees fans ran A-Rod out of town I'd love for him to come across town and move to second base. My point was that theres a reason Yankees fans think Jeter can do no wrong and boo A-Rod, and its the 4 championships. If A-Rod was there for just one of those championships he would get much more slack.
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Re: A-Choke Cult Club

Postby The Miner Part 2 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:14 pm

HOOTIE wrote:A cult tells lies, and gets weak people to follow. After seeing the 9 page locked A-Choke thread, let's actually put forth the truth (facts).

The cult, lead by it's infamous ringleader (Cafe vets know him), spews the following lies, while holding hands around a campfire in their Brosius robes chanting.

Arod is Mr. May.

Arod is non clutch, never gets a big hit.

Arod beats up on TB, but can't hit good teams.

Arod beats up on mediocre pitchers, but fails against the studs.


The cult never wants you to know this. :~(

Arods best career month is August easily.

.325 avg, 97 hrs, 245 rbis, 1.042 ops. And he's a better 2nd half player then 1st.

Arod in 2005 lead the majors in GWRBI, which means he had the most rbis that put his team ahead, that it never lost again.

Arod has a career .824 ops versus TB, yet has crushed Toronto, Anaheim, SF to name a few. Even has belted the NYY before getting there.

Arod is 20/53 (.377) 1.004 ops career against Clemens. In 16 abs against Johan Santana, he has 2 hrs. In 45 abs against Bartolo Colon, has 8 hrs, 17 rbis, 1.593 ops.

The group stops their chant and says no way. We can't handle the truth. We are about lies and living in fantasy. Group hug follows.

The Cafe does not endorse cults, or the lunacy that such groups spout.


well for the record this isnt just a fantasybaseball cafe cult. david justice was commenting on the yes network a few days ago saying a rod isnt "clutch". and ive heard discussions about this on espn countless times. i dont agree with it, but it's out there.

oh and to say dan marino is the consensess number 1 qb is silly. football fans realize there are more to the sport than just records. i'll take the guy who repeatedly shines on the biggest stage of them all over and over again. i.e. joe montana or tom brady any day of the week.
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Postby mbuser » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:27 pm

no one will disagree when you argue that marino is the most prolific passer ever and one of the best QB's in history. when naming the best QB ever, 'in my experience' montana gets the nod more than anyone else. it's a subjective call though
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Re: A-Choke Cult Club

Postby HOOTIE » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:02 pm

The Miner Part 2 wrote:well for the record this isnt just a fantasybaseball cafe cult. david justice was commenting on the yes network a few days ago saying a rod isnt "clutch". and ive heard discussions about this on espn countless times. i dont agree with it, but it's out there.


I know. It's on other boards and in NY in general. I can't send Justice a post. Arod is unfairly criticized because he's the highest paid. Jeter at 189 is next in overall money contract. I have heard no one, outside of myself, bring up the fact Jeter has no rings since he signed the 10 year 189 mil deal. Not that i blame Jeter, but he deserves some heat too. 0-5 since he got the big deal. In reality, George and Cashman deserve the heat. They signed those crazy deals (Wright/Pavano). Arod doesn't pitch. And btw, how many rings does Pujols have? Only Arod gets bashed for no rings. As far as Arod isn't clutch, not that any player really is, but Justice must have missed Arods 10th inning walkoff last week. The reality is (fans minds), Jeter does no wrong, and Arod does nothing right. This of course untrue. Joe DiMaggio has a ton of rings. He hit like Scott Brosius in the post season (not much).
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Re: A-Choke Cult Club

Postby The Miner Part 2 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:06 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
The Miner Part 2 wrote:well for the record this isnt just a fantasybaseball cafe cult. david justice was commenting on the yes network a few days ago saying a rod isnt "clutch". and ive heard discussions about this on espn countless times. i dont agree with it, but it's out there.


I know. It's on other boards and in NY in general. I can't send Justice a post. Arod is unfairly criticized because he's the highest paid. Jeter at 189 is next in overall money contract. I have heard no one, outside of myself, bring up the fact Jeter has no rings since he signed the 10 year 189 mil deal. Not that i blame Jeter, but he deserves some heat too. 0-5 since he got the big deal. In reality, George and Cashman deserve the heat. They signed those crazy deals (Wright/Pavano). Arod doesn't pitch. And btw, how many rings does Pujols have? Only Arod gets bashed for no rings. As far as Arod isn't clutch, not that any player really is, but Justice must have missed Arods 10th inning walkoff last week. The reality is (fans minds), Jeter does no wrong, and Arod does nothing right. This of course untrue. Joe DiMaggio has a ton of rings. He hit like Scott Brosius in the post season (not much).


yes i agree, nice post.

i think a-rods regular season numbers and playoff numbers really end the argument.
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Postby Strasil42 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:26 pm

Is Manny unclutch?????


In the last 3 years [03-05] Arods close and late BA/OBP/Slugging/OPS are all better then Manny Ramirez, but I have never heard one person call Manny "unclutch".

Maybe it's time we stop comparing Arod to Ortiz. Ortiz is the only one of the 3 [Manny,Arod,Ortiz]. That JUST gets paid to hit, and he obviously earns his paycheck..

Close and late 03-05

Avg/OBP/Slug/OPS

Arod .276 .392 .553 .945
Manny .270 .387 .423 .810


8-o 8-o 8-o
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Postby Strasil42 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:33 pm

teddy ballgame wrote:
Xtreemes wrote:It's Montana and Elway in my opinion

Same. Montana, Elway, Unitas, Starr, Bradshaw, Greise, and when it's all said and done even Manning and Brady will be right up there.

They may or may not be better than Marino but you can argue for any of them. You said that few people say Marino is not the best, which is the main thing I'm arguing. I just did a search for "Greatest All Time Quarterbacks" and Marino is yet to be on the top of any poll or list. He's up there and is most definately in the discussion...and may very well could be #1 but again, to say few people disagree he's number 1 is far from the truth.


You must be looking in places I'm not. Straight from Wiki

Daniel Constantine Marino Jr. (born September 15, 1961 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania of Italian and Polish ancestry) is an American football former quarterback who played for the Miami Dolphins in the National Football League. He holds or has held almost every meaningful NFL passing record and is widely recognized as one of the greatest quarterbacks in football history, despite never winning a Superbowl.



And some more Records/Stats

* Most Attempts, Career: 8,358
* Most Completions, Career: 4,967
* Most Yards Passing, Career: 61,361
* Most Touchdown Passes, Career: 420
* Most Passing Yards, Season: 5,084 in 1984
* Most Games, 400 or more Yards Passing, Career: 13
* Most Games, 400 or more Yards Passing, Season: 4 in 1984
* Most Games, 300 or more Yards Passing, Career: 60
* Most Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: 13 (1984-92, 1994-95, 1997-98)
* Most Consecutive Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: 9 (1984-92)
* Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Career: 21
* Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Season: 6 in 1984
* Most Consecutive Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes: 4 in 1984
* Lowest Percentage, Passes Intercepted, Rookie Season: 2.03 in 1983 (296-6)
* Most Seasons Leading League, Attempts: 5 (1984, 1986, 1988, 1992, 1997)
* Most Seasons Leading League, Completions: 6 (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1997)
* Most Seasons, 40 or more Touchdown Passes: 2 (1984, 1986)
* Most Seasons, 20 or more Touchdown Passes: 13 (1983-92, 1994-95, 1998)
* Most Consecutive Seasons, 20 or more Touchdown Passes: 10 (1983-92)
* 100 TD Passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 44 (9/7/86 at San Diego)
* 200 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 89 (9/17/89 at New England)
* 300 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 157 (9/4/94 vs. New England)

[edit]

NFL records tied for

* Most Seasons Leading League, Yards Gained: 5 (1984-86, 1988, 1992) with Sonny Jurgensen (Philadelphia, 1961-62; Washington, 1966-67, 1969)
* Most Consecutive Seasons Leading League, Completions: 3 (1984-86) with George Blanda (Houston, 1963-65)
* Most Consecutive Games, 400 or more Yards Passing: 2 (1984) with Dan Fouts (San Diego, 1982) and Phil Simms (N.Y. Giants, 1985)
* Most Seasons, 4000 or more Yards Passing: (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1994) with Peyton Manning (Indianapolis, 1999-2004)

[edit]

Additional statistics

Regular Season:

* Named NFL Most Valuable Player (1984)
* Played 242 games, starting 240 of them
* Career completion percentage of 59.4%
* Career passing efficiency rating is 86.4
* Threw 252 interceptions in his career
* First QB in NFL history to have six 4,000-yard seasons (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1994)
* Only QB in NFL history to pass for 5,000 or more yards in a single season (5,084 in 1984)
* Led 37 fourth-quarter comeback victories, second only to John Elway.
* Holds Dolphins team record for most seasons played, 17.
* Had 116 wins under Don Shula – the most by a head coach - quarterback combination in NFL history.
* Won the AFC Offensive Player of the Week honor 18 times in the regular season (and 20 times overall, including playoffs).
* Started 240 Regular Season Games and Held a 147-93 record as a starter ( Second to John Elway's NFL Best 148-82-1 Regular Season Record )
* Played in 18 Playoff Games and Held an 8-10 Record in the Playoffs
* One of only six quarterbacks in NFL history that have achieved two consecutive (back-to-back) 30-touchdown passing seasons at least one time in their careers (the others are Steve Bartkowski, Brett Favre, Dan Fouts, Jeff Garcia, and Y. A. Tittle).

Playoffs:

* Passed for 4,510 yards over career in playoff games
* Threw at least one touchdown pass in 16 of his 18 playoff contests, throwing a TD pass in his first 13 postseason contests.
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