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Postby DK » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:24 am

teddy ballgame wrote:
DK wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
DK wrote:
Xtreemes wrote:If Karl Malone had won an NBA championship he would be rated much higher in NBA history. If Dan Marino won a super bowl he might be thought of as the best quarterback of all time. If A-Rod won a world series.....


Ted Williams.

Williams in the '46 World Series:
.200 BA
.333 OBP
1 RBI
0 HR

That's a good point that he's never brought into that conversation. For a 7 game series those are atrocious numbers. It's a shame he missed 5 years and never got back there, but he failed on the big stage. I think the difference, even if it's unfair, is that ARod was brought to town for the sole purpose of winning a WS, and since he hasn't he's a "choker."


You're going to judge a 20 year career on seven games?

What? I don't understand where you're going with this. What was your point with Williams then? Of course I'm not judging him with those 7 games...he's the best hitter in baseball. The point is he failed during his chance on the biggest stage and isn't really called on for that. ARod has done well in the playoffs but he's called a choker.


OK, I was confused at what you were saying. It just seemed odd that a guy with the screename "Teddy Ballgame" was bashing Splinter.

Everyone has a bad stretch of games. In the World Series, I'd have Ted Williams up as soon as anybody, regardless of what a 7-game stretch of games says. Same with A-Rod.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:30 am

DK wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
DK wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
DK wrote:
Xtreemes wrote:If Karl Malone had won an NBA championship he would be rated much higher in NBA history. If Dan Marino won a super bowl he might be thought of as the best quarterback of all time. If A-Rod won a world series.....


Ted Williams.

Williams in the '46 World Series:
.200 BA
.333 OBP
1 RBI
0 HR

That's a good point that he's never brought into that conversation. For a 7 game series those are atrocious numbers. It's a shame he missed 5 years and never got back there, but he failed on the big stage. I think the difference, even if it's unfair, is that ARod was brought to town for the sole purpose of winning a WS, and since he hasn't he's a "choker."


You're going to judge a 20 year career on seven games?

What? I don't understand where you're going with this. What was your point with Williams then? Of course I'm not judging him with those 7 games...he's the best hitter in baseball. The point is he failed during his chance on the biggest stage and isn't really called on for that. ARod has done well in the playoffs but he's called a choker.


OK, I was confused at what you were saying. It just seemed odd that a guy with the screename "Teddy Ballgame" was bashing Splinter.

Everyone has a bad stretch of games. In the World Series, I'd have Ted Williams up as soon as anybody, regardless of what a 7-game stretch of games says. Same with A-Rod.

Right, as would I. I thought I was agreeing with you that Williams struggled in the WS and should be included in the list of Marino, Malone, etc.

I was saying that ARod hasn't won a WS and is hammered all the time for it. He has put up numbers in the playoffs worthy of a WS. Williams got there and didn't come through but you don't hear about that much. Both of them are amazing hitters but one gets unfair blame, and the other is exempt from it so that's a good comparison of why the blame on ARod is unfair.
Last edited by teddy ballgame on Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bigh0rt » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:31 am

Xtreemes wrote:If Karl Malone had won an NBA championship he would be rated much higher in NBA history. If Dan Marino won a super bowl he might be thought of as the best quarterback of all time. If A-Rod won a world series.....


Dan Marino is thought of as the best quarterback of all time... :-? Few people argue otherwise, throwing guys like Elway around, but I'd say the vast majority of people believe it's Dan, and rightfully so. As a diehard Jets fan, I'm thrilled he never won a Super Bowl, and think it tarnishes his career absolutely zero.

Anybody who thinks that outside of tennis and golf (and maybe some other obscure sports I'm not thinking of -- billiards, table tennis...) that one man 'wins' a championship is simply misguided. Sometimes one player makes a big play and it effects a championship game, but if the player is there, and the situation doesn't arise -- he really has no choice but to just play the game. Teams win championships; plain and simple. No single player is good enough in any sport to carry their team above any and all competition -- sorry, it's the truth. A baseball player gets 4-5 at bats in an entire baseball game and makes a handful of plays on balls hit to him in the course of a game; a QB is under center with the ball in his hands maybe 40 or so times in a game (not counting the times he hands off, and not even involved in the other 50% of the game!), even a basketball player isn't enough to defeat the 12 men that oppose him (maybe he hits a game winning shot, but it was his team that helped put him in that position). The bottom line is this argument is so lame, and it's about time people started realizing how silly and short-signted it is, and drop it.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:35 am

bigh0rt wrote:
Xtreemes wrote:If Karl Malone had won an NBA championship he would be rated much higher in NBA history. If Dan Marino won a super bowl he might be thought of as the best quarterback of all time. If A-Rod won a world series.....


Dan Marino is thought of as the best quarterback of all time... :-? Few people argue otherwise, throwing guys like Elway around, but I'd say the vast majority of people believe it's Dan, and rightfully so.

I rarely see Marino thought of as the greatest of all time. 8-o He's certainly not a consensus #1. I definately wouldn't say the vast majority believe Dan is #1.
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Postby beezer » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:41 am

Xtreemes wrote:If Karl Malone had won an NBA championship he would be rated much higher in NBA history. If Dan Marino won a super bowl he might be thought of as the best quarterback of all time. If A-Rod won a world series.....






Most athletes' career's shouldn't be judged on whether or not they won a championship. There are so many other factors that go into winning a team sport championship. Marino never had a good RB or defense for that matter. Given that he didn't have those things, he should actually be praised even more!! Put Montana on the Dolphins and there is no way he has the same career. On the flip side, put Marino on the Niners and who knows he could have 5 or 6 Super Bowls!! To win the World Series, one guy can't carry a team to the championship, unless it is a dominant pitcher. In the NBA though, it is known that two superstars CAN carry a team to a title. Malone had another HOF player in Stockton and still couldn't win!! I think the Bulls and Jordan had a lot to do with that!! Jordan did that to a lot of NBA HOF's. Ewing comes to mind also.

In baseball more than any other sport, the numbers don't lie. A-Rod is getting unfairly booed and criticized. The Yankees haven't won a championship lately because they reverted back to the 80's style of trying to "buy" one. No chemistry and questionable pitching are the reasons they have not won, not A-Rod!!!!!!! The worst thing the Yankees did was let Pettitte walk and then sign Kevin Brown!! It's been downhill ever since.
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Postby bigh0rt » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:15 am

teddy ballgame wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
Xtreemes wrote:If Karl Malone had won an NBA championship he would be rated much higher in NBA history. If Dan Marino won a super bowl he might be thought of as the best quarterback of all time. If A-Rod won a world series.....


Dan Marino is thought of as the best quarterback of all time... :-? Few people argue otherwise, throwing guys like Elway around, but I'd say the vast majority of people believe it's Dan, and rightfully so.

I rarely see Marino thought of as the greatest of all time. 8-o He's certainly not a consensus #1. I definately wouldn't say the vast majority believe Dan is #1.


Then, in your experiences, who is? Montana? Elway? Putting blatant homerism aside, nearly every person, be they friend, fan, or otherwise, put Marino head and shoulders above the rest, in my experiences. The analysts too, for the most part, drink the Marino Kool-Aid.
Last edited by bigh0rt on Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DK » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:19 am

I know nothing about football, but I would go with Montana.
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Postby raiders_umpire » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:21 am

bigh0rt wrote:
Then, in your experiences, who is? Montana? Elway? Putting blatant homerism aside, nearly every person, be they friend, fan, or otherwise, put Marino head and shoulders above the rest. The analysts too, for the most part, drink the Marino Kool-Aid.




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Postby Xtreemes » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:36 am

It's Montana and Elway in my opinion
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:41 am

Xtreemes wrote:It's Montana and Elway in my opinion


Then you'd probably also rather have Derek Jeter than Alex Rodriguez?
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