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Ethics issue

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Ethics issue

Postby Gepfar » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:34 am

I am in my second year of fantasy baseball (have been a long time fantasy football player, so I am faimiliar with fantasy sports). The baseball league itself is only in its second year and roughly half the owners are newbies like myself. In the first year, the commish policed all transactions very carefully...sort of looking out for the rookies. The problem with this is that every transaction was subject to his opinion. This year, the commish said at the beginning of the year he would not interfere and allow owners to make decisions for themselves, but strongly encouraged them to seek advice from the more experienced players in the league.

So, I recently made a deal with another owner that brought a high profile player to my team in exchange for 2 average players with decent stats so far this year (Actually the final deal was a counteroffer from the other owner). So, the commish allows the deal as he said he would, but basically feels I am ripping someone off who doesn't know better. I disagree that I am "ripping them off" but I do feel that I am definitely getting the better end of the deal. I am simply looking for ways to make my team better. From the other owners perspective, more experienced players likely would not have made the deal.

So is this unethical on my part? And if so, should I offer to reverse the trade?
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Postby Fantasy Fan » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:50 am

It'd be good to actually know what the trade was.
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Postby RugbyD » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:15 am

knowing the trade would be nice, but i don't think it matters in the end. the fact that you accepted a counteroffer from the other guy should erase any guilt. If you managed to convince him that Luis Gonzalez was going to hit 25 HRs the rest of the way, then you might need to re-evaluate your moral compass. If the other guy chooses not to seek the counsel of others and prefers to go his own way, then you have to respect that and should not feel bad for doing so.
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Postby Mugrila » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:26 am

I don't think you're at fault in any way. The object of trading is to make your team as good as you can. And since it was his counter offer, that makes it even less your fault. Just explain to the commish you weren't trying to rip him off in any way, and he countered with that offer which you just couldn't refuse.
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Postby Gepfar » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:56 am

If you want to know, I gave up Escobar and Gomes in exchange for Beltran. The other owner was in need of some pitching.


I intentionally left the trade details out because I did not want to focus on this trade specifically. Rather, I thought this would be more of a generalized discussion regarding trade ethics. Is there an ethical responsibility on the part of the owners involved to ensure even value in trade OR if you can somehow swing a killer deal should you go for it?
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Postby RugbyD » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:58 am

if you don't try for the best deal you can get, you're only screwing yourself and nobody else.
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Postby jsphlly » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:08 am

I've been commishing my league since 2000 and I honestly don't care how "fair" a trade is made between two teams.

When its all said and done, unless there is obvious cheating, there are 2 managers agreeing upon a deal, and that's between them. If a new guy gets fleeced, oh well, that's the learning curve. Of course, we play for money and it becomes a little more cut throat I think.

Last year, early in the season, I was offered J. Reyes & M. Mora for Radke & Dotel. What was I supposed to do? Decline it? When you see something on sale, if you think it's a great buy, do you tell the seller that its too low of a price?

You did nothing wrong. It's not like you're using cheat codes or something, it's another human on the other end of the deal.
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Postby noseeum » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:17 pm

Everything went perfectly in this deal. You got by far the better end of the deal fair and square. The commish let it through, then voiced his sickness at the stench of such a move on the other owner's part.

That's how you improve the level of play in your league. The other owner SHOULD hear from the rest of the league that he made a terrible trade, if that's how they feel. He'll take that in and look at it from other angles, then maybe say " I got hosed."

And guess what. He won't be so quick to trade a top outfielder next time.

Lots of rookie owners don't get the inherent inequity of a two for one deal. They forget that last part of the deal where they have to drop another player from their team. Every trade has an equal number of players on both sides: the players involved in the trade and the players that get dropped. When you look at it that way, you tend to be cautious with lopsided deals.

But the only way you learn things like this is by getting the short end of the stick sometimes or seeing someone else get it.

So enjoy your winnings and know that the rest of the league should learn from the trade.
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Postby CBMGreatOne » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:57 pm

Hmm, everybody is running to your defense, but you are feeling guilty for a reason.

I've offered bad trades to people, but it's been a really long time since I've offered one that bad (particularly considering Gomes's injury).

True story- I offered a newbie owner in a league I commish this year Jim Thome, Jeff Francouer, and Javier Vazquez for Alfonso Soriano and Prince Fielder.

HE countered with Soriano and Fielder for Francouer and Saito. (Note, this was when Soriano had just taken the #1 spot and Gagne had only just discovered that he MIGHT be going back to the DL)

I never even CONSIDERED accepting the trade. I felt it would be unfair for me to take advantage of my leaguemates in such a way, especially considering the fact that I was commish.

Gomes and Escobar for Beltran is a horrible deal. If your trades were reviewed by league votes, I believe the overwhelming majority of leagues would vote it down immediately. The commish decided to let it ride, most likely because he didn't want to feel as though he was too active in league transactions.

In this case, I think (scratch that, I know) his better judgment would have been to veto.

If you can build a team of superstars through bad deals like that, then by all means, go ahead and do it, but that doesn't sound like a fun league to play in even for you, much less all of the other now-disgruntled owners you've probably created.

Deals like this are BAD for fantasy leagues. I personally never want to be a part of one of them.

I want both owners to be making an honest and informed attempt to improve their own teams. Deals made out of apathy or ignorance are never acceptable. That's my philosophy. I think you'll find the more knowledgeable and experienced (perhaps adult even would be a good adjective) fantasy players will tend to share this sentiment.

Like others have said though, you only accepted a bad trade, you didn't propose it. You aren't "guilty," but you aren't smelling like a rose either.
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Postby bleach168 » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:01 pm

It's so refreshing to see a Commish lay out the rules before the league begins and stick to them. You got a good one. ;-D
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